[Official] Gathering Planning :: Gathering 2003

3278 · Post by **3278** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 5:59 pm

Based on opinions of this year's Gathering, and last year's, and desires for next year's, the Gathering Planning Committee would like to solicit suggestions for next year's Gathering.

However, we would like to make it very, very clear up-front that Planning will be doing /nothing/ other than assisting people with place and time. Food, activities, reservations, etc., will be up to all of us as a group.

Eva has gathered some information on hotels in the Indianapolis area. I personally recommend we choose - and soon - a hotel in which to stay, in Indy, for the duration.

Timing is the only other issue, and that has the following possibilities:

Pre-Gencon
*Friday-Thursday
*Monday-Thursday
Post-Gencon
*?

Once we've discussed the options available to us, I'll open a couple of polls, and we'll work from there.

Look, Gathering 2002 sucked pretty bad in some ways, for some people. And we can sit around and bitch about it - which I'll likely do, at least in my own head - or we can turn our energies to making Gathering 2003 do all the rocking that 2002 didn't. Agreed?

Wildfire · Post by **Wildfire** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 10:36 pm

Okay, question: Who exactly is/are the planners? I have quite a few friends in Indy, and am more than willing to see who gets a discount where, or if any of them have access to either private sites within the loop, or could get up a cheap package deal at one of the university dorms or something, but I need to know if I should post here, or who I should email/PM/etc.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 10:57 pm

Post it all here. By and large, right now, there /is/ no Planning committee. We'll see, as time goes on, who's best equipped to help out.

MooCow · Post by **MooCow** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 1:25 am

Well.....

As I've said before, I would prefer Pre-GenCon. Specifically, I'd say go with Saturday-Thursday before GenCon.

As for place, I'd say find something decent in a fun section of town. Yeah, I know, that's lots of help.

Although I personally liked the camping/Cabin thing. *shrug* But if hotel's are what the majority want, then Hotel's I guess it is.

There we go. My completley useless 2 cents.

MooCow
The useless cow

Oh yeah.... I wouldn't mind doing some scouting possibly. I have an old roommate that lives in Indy who I've been saying I was gonna go visit for like a year now. This would make a good excuse.

Salvation122 · Post by **Salvation122** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 3:40 am

As I stated in the non-official Gathering 2k3 thread, my parents have not-quite offered me the use of our timeshare as a graduation present, so it's possible (though I make no guarantees and quote no odds) that I could host the Gathering with a timeshare just outside of Indy for free. Well, living-quarters wise. Let me do some research and find out if Sunterra even has a spot in or damn near Indy and I'll let you guys know what I could maybe come up with.

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 5:48 am

Suggestion for location:

Somewhere not too close to a lot of other people. That way, if the partying and excitement get too rowdy, the fuzz won't show up and shut it down. If we're sleeping arrangements are going to be similar to G2K2, and we want to get a hotel or something, then we should take over a small hotel, maybe rent the entire thing, so that we don't piss off other patrons. I like the G2K2 concept, using a resort or something similar, it keeps the "community" thing alive.

Food:

For a gathering of this magnetude, those that can't afford to go to the bar or restaurants every night should have an alternative. Best thing I can think of: A couple of us running the grills/hibachi/whatever, for group meals...which also equals more bonding time for everyone, especially if we make Food Loaf one of the meals.

Activites:

Well, I'd like to have a few gun ranges set up, but this is impractical and very dangerous...even with me as the rangemaster. So, video games are a good idea (especially head-to-head types so we could have a tournament of sorts). Volleyball net (and ball). Maybe some type of contest with prizes (just silly ones, like paper-plate awards or the Bulldrek Cup or something)..I think that would help keep a light and silly atmoshpere.

Just my two cents...

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 5:55 am

Suggestion for location:

Somewhere not too close to a lot of other people. That way, if the partying and excitement get too rowdy, the fuzz won't show up and shut it down. If we're sleeping arrangements are going to be similar to G2K2, and we want to get a hotel or something, then we should take over a small hotel, maybe rent the entire thing, so that we don't piss off other patrons. I like the G2K2 concept, using a resort or something similar, it keeps the "community" thing alive.

Food:

For a gathering of this magnetude, those that can't afford to go to the bar or restaurants every night should have an alternative. Best thing I can think of: A couple of us running the grills/hibachi/whatever, for group meals...which also equals more bonding time for everyone, especially if we make Food Loaf one of the meals.

Activites:

Well, I'd like to have a few gun ranges set up, but this is impractical and very dangerous...even with me as the rangemaster. So, video games are a good idea (especially head-to-head types so we could have a tournament of sorts). Volleyball net (and ball). Maybe some type of contest with prizes (just silly ones, like paper-plate awards or the Bulldrek Cup or something)..I think that would help keep a light and silly atmoshpere.

Just my two cents...

Eva · Post by **Eva** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 7:28 am

My preference would be Saturday - Thursday pre-GenCon. I would like for us to stay in a hotel walking distance from the Convention Center, but understand it if we - as a community - cannot afford it.

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 7:51 am

My vote's with Eva on that one.

Cash · Post by **Cash** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 9:16 am

Ditto. It makes it easier to get the time off.

Wildfire · Post by **Wildfire** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 3:27 pm

I have posted to the list of all my Indy-centric friends, and I'll see what comes up. The only problem I can think of with a hotel is a UJ said, bothering the other people, and I don't know if there's anything within walking distance that is small so we could take the whole thing. But Indy does have a rather good public transport system IIRC. Anyways, I'll see what comes up.

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 3:51 pm

One thing to keep in mind about hotels and Indianapolis and Gencon is that the local tourism board may get very shitty about us having reservations around the Con.

DV8 · Post by **DV8** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 4:03 pm

Why would that be, Caz? I realize that they want to keep things open for the 30.000 gamers that will be flooding the area, but since a lot of us will be staying during GenCon as well, I don't see how it would be that big of a problem.

Thorn · Post by **Thorn** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 4:42 pm

What he means is that it's possible that housing for GC in Indy will operate the same way it did in Milwaukee, in that in order to get a hotel room for GC, you /had/ to submit a form to Wizards, who sent it to the Milwaukee Board of Tourism (or perhaps I'm remembering the wrong group - something similar, at least) who then assigned hotel rooms.

So, basically, we just need to make sure that we don't have to jump through those kinds of hoops again for Indy.

Another thought - sometimes you can get cheaper rates at a hotel if you are planning to reserve a block of rooms (like weddings do and stuff). That might be something worth looking into.

DV8 · Post by **DV8** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 5:22 pm

Ah, right. Thanks Thorn.

Thorn · Post by **Thorn** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 5:24 pm

No problem. I know not everyone speaks Cazzian.

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 5:36 pm

Thank you Thorn. I forget that there's this whole language barrier thing inside my head.

Eliahad · Post by **Eliahad** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 5:39 pm

That's okay, my language barrier is in my fingertips...

Adam · Post by **Adam** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 6:26 pm

Based on the multiple people who have expressed preference for pre- as opposed to post-Gencon, let me just state that I have no problems with a pre-Gencon Gathering; it will not affect my attendance in any way.

Because I'm not going. ;-)

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 6:56 pm

Cazmonster thinks that the skinny Canadian may be up to his old tricks.

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 11:51 pm

Adam wrote:Because I'm not going. ;-)

Credibility Factor nil, honey.

Adam · Post by **Adam** » Wed Aug 21, 2002 12:06 am

Jestyr wrote:
Adam wrote:Because I'm not going. ;-)
Credibility Factor nil, honey.

It will so fuck you all up if I don't go next year. muhhahha!

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Wed Aug 21, 2002 1:57 am

Nah, we'll just assume you're there, but standing sideways.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Wed Aug 21, 2002 4:23 am

Which sucks. Meri Kain and I plan on renting a room at the Mariott, a nice room. I don't want to have deal thru the Gen Con people unless I have too. The room I want is about 280 and up a night so hopefully that is out of the avergae gamers willingness to spend.

My vacation is hopefully for the last two weeks of July and maybe some of the first week of August. I don't really plan on staying more than seven days in Indy.

As for activities...well I am play it by ear guy if you plan it I will try it!

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Wed Aug 21, 2002 4:37 am

That is less than perfect, yeah, if we have to book through the GenCon accommodations people. Curses.

I know Indy has a /lot/ more hotel rooms than Milwaukee does, so that might make a difference. I hope so, anyway.

Bull · Post by **Bull** » Wed Aug 21, 2002 5:57 am

OK, a thought. Not the BEST alternative, granted, but...

For starters, what about making the "official" gathering through the start of Gen Con only? I'm not entirely sure how the housing board will be handling Gen Con, but I imagine that most of the GC rooms that get "Set aside" will start Wednesday night... Which means we could try for Saturday through Tuesday night, then anyone who wants to stay longer would have to deal with Gen Con and the Housing board.

Here's a question that should be answered fairly soon. Honestly, I think the only real problem with a couple areas of this years gathering was simply miscommunication, since things were discussed, such as the food situation, in a manner that made it seem like the "Final" decision, and no announcements were really made contradicting them. So...

Assuming we do hotel rooms, regardless of length, where, etc... Is someone (or a group of someones) going to reserve a "block" of rooms? Or, will it be more of a "We're staying at Hotel X, make reservations ASAP if yu want to join us"?

<shrug> I'm just curious...

I talked with Eva a bit last night, and basically, I'm in so long as I can afford it. The ONLY reason I didn't have to bail this year was because of Earl's generosity (I think I thanked you at the cabin, dude, but in case I didn't, Thanks man... I was a bit out of it the last day or so of the Gathering, and with Gen Con I got VERY busy... So again, thanks). Hotel rooms aren't cheap, especially for a week+, which is what my case will be, so... We'll see. But if I can make it somehow, i'll SO be there.

However, I'll also only be there through Tuesday night, as I'll move to the GM hotel rooms for the Tourney stuff on Wednesday for the convention. Basically, this would be for two, maybe three reasons:

1) Cost. Supposedly, Gen Con gets a slightly better hotel rate per night. Not sure if this is true, but this means hotels through FanPro for me and the other GMs could start off costing a bit less. Also, this year FanPro was able to pay about half the hotel costs, cutting room fees down a LOT.

2) Location. Depending on where the Gathering ends up, FanPro will be able to put me up in a fairly close hotel, likely. Which means less walking. And between a shitty knee and the sheer amount of walking I already do at the conventions, between just lookinga round and running back and forth for Seminars, meetings,and tournaments that I have to be around for, a hotel 4 or 5 blocks away is WAY out of the question during the convention.

3) On Site Planning. Being in the "GM ROoms" means that I'm also with a good number of the other GMs, which means that I'm on hand should problems crop up. Granted, this isn't a "Plus" for me, but... Repsonsibility is responsibility.

Anyways, just my rambling two cents. Ignore at will

Bull

Eva · Post by **Eva** » Wed Aug 21, 2002 8:43 am

Here are my thoughts.

Although reserving in block is a good idea financially, it's a pain in the butt from a practical point of view. The difference in rates decide if I would say go or no go.

Should we do the block reservation, it means two things:
* people need to tell Planning /well/ in advance whether they're going or not;
* people will probably need to pay a deposit to ensure their room.

In conversations over IRC about this, my main point has been: everyone takes responsiblity for themselves. Coming from this year's Gathering's Planning, I'm all about 2k3 Planning not taking responsibility for everyone. I had a moment of clarity the other day. You know why herding Bulldrekkers is like herding cats? Because like cats, you shouldn't try to herd them.

My suggestion - which I've communicated to a number of people so far - is that Planning sets dates and sets a hotel, both /after/ receiving input from the community about where the preferences lie. After that point, in my eyes, Planning is done. Should we decide to go for a block reservation then there's an extra bit of work for Planning tacked on, but that is where it ends.

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Wed Aug 21, 2002 9:24 am

I have to say, I think a block reservation is a really good idea, even if it is a bit more work for whoever the Planners wind up being. If not, we're likely to get rooms all over the hotel, on different floors, whatever. This is going to be inconvenient (hello isolated cabin 8!) and gives us even more neighbors to annoy, to boot. Not so good.

Eva · Post by **Eva** » Wed Aug 21, 2002 9:40 am

Then there's some Indy info we've gathered.

* Check the Indianapolis Downtown Map for the mad Indy info.

* I've checked a number of hotels (Mariott Courtyard Indy Downtown, Westin Indianapolis and Hyatt Regency) and those were full. They did provide me with some linkage to hotels that should have rooms available.

As Bull pointed out when we were talking over IRC about this, hotels mentioned above are probably listed as full because they're reserved blockily by GenCon Housing.

* Although my preference would be that we're all in the same hotel for the duration of Gathering and GenCon, it's not unlikely that a bunch of us (need to) move halfway in the process. As long as we're all in walking distance of eachother, it should be semi-manageable, no? Cringes when reminded of the lack of cell phoneage.

MooCow · Post by **MooCow** » Wed Aug 21, 2002 10:06 am

* I've checked a number of hotels (Mariott Courtyard Indy Downtown, Westin Indianapolis and Hyatt Regency) and those were full.

Did you actually call the hotels or just check via their websites? Typically you can't reserve a room more then like 9-10 months in advance (At least not without speaking to someone). Until that cut off point, the website will return a "no rooms available". I've had this every year when reserving rooms in Milwaukee. It just keeps saying no rooms available until sometime in late september/early october... then suddenly there are rooms available.

As Bull pointed out when we were talking over IRC about this, hotels mentioned above are probably listed as full because they're reserved blockily by GenCon Housing.

Hopefully this won't be the case. According to some rumors I've heard, Indy refused to do this kind of thing for the NBA. If they won't do it for the NBA I doubt they'd do it for WOTC. But then that's all scuttlebutt. We can just sit back and hope.

MooCow
The Hotel Cow

Wildfire · Post by **Wildfire** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 5:20 pm

A rural lead:

http://www.in.gov/dnr/parklake/inns/fth ... index.html

Fort Harrison is about a half hour outside of Indy, and says it has 4 houses on the property, one large one divided into suites that sleeps 16, and 3 smaller ones which sleep 10. At base peak prices, the large and one of the smaller would be $516/night, two of the smaller would be $438. Split 26 ways for the first option, or 20 ways for the second, about $20/person/night. Includes free housekeeping and contenental breakfast

Rollaways are available for an extra $5 a night as well. If this souns like something we might want to look into, let me know and I'll try to give them a call and see if its possible.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 5:54 pm

There we are, then. Let Planning take a look, and let all of us Gathering-goers see what we think, and let's decide if this is worth seriously checking out.

Cash · Post by **Cash** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 1:41 am

*2 thumbs up from Cash*

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 6:50 am

Wildfire was talking about this online last night, and it does sound pretty good.

[Thanks for doing the research, Wild!]

Eva · Post by **Eva** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 11:29 am

Wildfire wrote:.. free housekeeping ..

That's just the best part. I keep reading your post over and over again, just to get that giddy feeling when I see 'free housekeeping'. Mmmm..

Jackal · Post by **Jackal** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 11:36 am

I'll toss in something on this one. I'll have to say post GenCon. Allow everyone to get together, relax. Game with any new stuff. Not have to hurry to go home, that sort of thing. Also for selfish reasons, it being after GC will increase my chances of being able to go.

Ampere · Post by **Ampere** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 12:36 pm

Ok, I have a little experience is dealing with distant gatherings. See, I also do medieval reenactments. Doing this we have to meet in distant places often. I've been doing this for 15 years this year.

I think it was Eva who made a reference to herding cats. This is absolutely right, partly. Rooming can be coordinated and transport too. Outside that it generally doesn't work.

The following is a distillation of my observances over the years in reference to gatherings such as this. It is meant as an idea. Chew on it, pass it around, use what you like, discard what you don't. Cool?

The breakdown:
Lodging:Setting up lodging can work. This requires someone to be in charge and someone to be the contact person. Can be the same person. This contact person is the mouthpiece to potential sites AND contact person internally for the group. This is the person everyone would contact. Next is the deposit holder, so being trustworthy and responsible are key. Deposits will generally be a necessity, and also pretty far in advance, say 6 months to be safe.Preferably, the contact person will be the closest person to the site. The point here is to have a definite point of contact for deposits and communicating to the site. Communication is the key for these people. They must be adults, and easy to contact.

*Deposits should be nonrefundable.

When you pitch in, you are in, backing out screws the rest of the group. All funds should be forwarded to the Deposit person a month prior to the event. The deposit person shouldn't get screwed trying to cover for people unable to get their funds in. It happens.
(I realize this sounds harsh, check the next para.)

Another idea that has worked for this is to have the breakdown graduated by the number of participating people with graduations on paper for additional people. So when more people show up than planned you know how much each slot costs and how much to dole back out to the existing participants. (I sure hope that made sense).

As far as who camps/ rooms with whom it is pretty easy to have a map made up with slots available, designated smoking areas, noisy areas etc. Sign up where you want to. First come first serve. In case of an overload in one area or another there can be a lottery system. Easy.

Food: Everyone should plan on going it alone. When people get to the site then plans can be made for grocery shopping/ pooling/ etc. I almost never works when planned before. Also you shouldn't plan on more than maybe a few major food events. Folks will generally grange most of the day and at events people get busy and skip meals. Not much time for real sitdowns usually. Nobody needs to be in charge of this except possibly at the event per meal "Hosted".

Transport: Some folks will be driving, some will be flying. There should be a list of volunteers for shuttle service to/ from the con and airport. The list of volunteers can be made pretty much at the last minute (even though it freaks people out when they wonder if they are going to get picked up.) See next paragraph. Someone should be in charge of this in the last month.

Communications: There should be a posted list of phone contacts. Everyone should have this list who is going. This way everyone knows who has a cell and can network back to transportation assets which may already be in transit to or from where folks are. Someone should be incharge of this in the last month.

Comparison:
Renting a block from a rural hotel/ cabins etc. Good for privacy, can be cheaper, less chance of causing legal problems. Does cause transportation problems (but not if above system is used).

Renting individual rooms thru the con, spread all over hell and back, but close enough to walk. Centrally located to shopping, food, etc. More issues with coordination (nearly impossible when folks are all spread out) possible dsiruptions from others and by bulldrekkers.

All in all this would need 3-5 people commited to their part.
I hope you find at least some of this helpful.

~A~

MooCow · Post by **MooCow** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 1:49 pm

*MooCow thinks that Ampere just volunteered to join the Planning Committee*

Tryyng · Post by **Tryyng** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 5:23 am

1 vote for the cabin idea: i'm poor. very, very poor. hotel rooms are expensive. continental breakfasts can last me for most of a day. and i have a large car, seats 6 relatively easily, and enjoy driving.

and i would be all for the beforehand payment plan. gives me more insentive to come if i've already coughed up the dough.

i'd also be willing to do research work: if someone wants to shunt a task on me, drop a line to tryyng@hotmail.com. i check fairly regularily, and like the whole trail hound thing.

Marius · Post by **Marius** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 7:29 am

i have a large car, seats 6 relatively easily, and enjoy driving.

Which would have been nice to go to 2002 in, thank you very much for paying attention.

Ampere · Post by **Ampere** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 10:28 am

MooCow wrote:*MooCow thinks that Ampere just volunteered to join the Planning Committee*

Touche.

Can I retract my posting now?

~A~

Tryyng · Post by **Tryyng** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 3:05 am

sorry marius, i wanted to come, but like i said, i wasn't planning on spending $600 for school books this semester. kinda ate into the money i was gonna use for gencon. but since i've already stashed the cash for next year, i should be fine.

Marius · Post by **Marius** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 3:48 am

My first academic rule is: Never buy books.

It works, dontchyaknow

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Sun Sep 08, 2002 8:11 pm

Don't trust Marius. He's pre-law.

Gunny · Post by **Gunny** » Mon Sep 09, 2002 4:31 pm

do airlines offer discounts on group flyers? for example, if all the Chi-town/relative area(insert your city/area) BDers got their tickets together.

Adam · Post by **Adam** » Mon Sep 09, 2002 4:58 pm

No, but they'll anally rape you all right in a row if you ask nicely.

[I hate airlines.]

[[I feel perfectly justified in this hate.]]]

Seriously, if you bought like, 100 tickets, they might give you an extra half package of peanuts per ten people.

Gunny · Post by **Gunny** » Mon Sep 09, 2002 5:22 pm

that can't be true. airlines LOVE groups. why else would they cater to a family vacationing together? and I wasn't thinking of Southwest as a means of travel either. BLEH!!! I hate Southwest!! and you don't have to fly anywhere Adam. feel free to hoof it.

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Mon Sep 09, 2002 6:26 pm

Airlines are the suck. They are evil, money-grubbing vampirous leeches. Hate hate hate.

Okay, so I have a mad hate-on for airlines right now. I mean, can someone explain to me /why/ it's twice as expensive to fly out of the US and back again, than it is to fly in and out? It's in/sane/.

Marius · Post by **Marius** » Mon Sep 09, 2002 6:49 pm

I mean, can someone explain to me /why/ it's twice as expensive to fly out of the US and back again, than it is to fly in and out? It's in/sane/.

U.S. resident travelers have more money to blow, on average (which is probably tied to exchange rates, etc., etc.). The market will bear . . .

DV8 · Post by **DV8** » Mon Sep 09, 2002 7:40 pm

Zactly.