[Gathering 2003] New Spangly Option

Twisted Sister · Post by **Twisted Sister** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 12:39 am

So plans A through Z for Gathering 2003 seem to have their flaws. What about a tried and tested option: Hayes Resort, Fox Lake.

Positive Points ::

1. We know them, they know us
We could probably get a sweet deal in terms of the duration of our stay, as we did last year. We have a relationship with this place, thus they may be a little more inclined to bend on their rules again.

2. Cheap
Even without 32's cash injection, it is relatively inexpensive. Assuming that - like last year - a number of people pre-pay for guaranteed bed space, crashers could pay as little as $15 a night.

Negative points ::

1. Far away from Indy
According to Mapquest, Fox Lake to Indianapolis is a 7 hour drive. However, this is a drive you do /once/, unless you're flying in. If so, it's seems sensible to fly to somewhere between the resort and GenCon, say Chicago, then pull together and roadtrip to Fox Lake, GenCon and back. That way, international plane tickets are kept down as you are arriving and leaving from the same place.

For those driving: dude, if you're already planning roadtrips from one end of the country to the other, will a couple of hours extra driving make that much of a difference?

1b. Crash space @ Gathering != Crash space @ GenCon
So you can't stay at Hayes for GenCon. Looking at last year, it seems people are pretty easy going when it comes to lending people floor space.

So then, what do you think? Hayes, mad boozing, a massive lake, Barman Bob and accomodating waitresses?

MooCow · Post by **MooCow** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 1:10 am

Ok.... My personal opinion on this is against. The drive is evil. I hate driving, I hate putting more miles on my truck then neccesary. But my opinion is unimportant.

To expand on the positives -- The price is very right. With one scenario, we could get 4 cabins (3,4, 6, 7) that sleep 20 people in beds (alot of double beds though). The cost for a bed would be $69 for 4 nights. Another bonus is that we need only 1/2 the money to make a reservation. This is far better then almost all other options we have looked at.

To expand on the negatives -- not near GenCon. One of the main reasons we have it near GenCon is so that people can go to both. 7 hours and 375 miles is alot to me.

For those not familiar with Hayes Resort -- www.hayesresort.com/

Anyways, my imput.

Cash · Post by **Cash** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 1:26 am

I very much like this idea. The food and beer were cheap, the staff was nice, the countryside was great, 18 foot deep lake.

According to Mapquest, Fox Lake to Indianapolis is a 7 hour drive. However, this is a drive you do /once/, unless you're flying in. If so, it's seems sensible to fly to somewhere between the resort and GenCon, say Chicago, then pull together and roadtrip to Fox Lake, GenCon and back.

ROADTRIP!!!!! *ahem*...much better.

Eva · Post by **Eva** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 1:29 am

Cash wrote:ROADTRIP!!!!! *ahem*...much better.

You need help, Erik.

FlakJacket · Post by **FlakJacket** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 1:59 am

Seriously though. What would be the logistics of something like this? Either we have some really nice local 'drekkers that will be using their own cars which they rent out seats in, or rental vehicles if people don't like the idea if that much milage on their own cars.

So whatever we do, this is going to cost in gas and miles racked up. Anyone care to pull a guesstimate of what something like this might cost out of their asses? Because if it wasn't too horrendous, this doesn't sound too bad.

The only problems I could see would be timing and organisation- in getting people together- and with a seven hour drive losing a large chunk of a couple days.

Cash · Post by **Cash** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 2:23 am

Eva wrote:
Cash wrote:ROADTRIP!!!!! *ahem*...much better.
You need help, Erik.

I do. I really do.

Jodel has expressed an interest in going this year and Roadtripping it as well...

MooCow · Post by **MooCow** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 3:13 am

Anyone care to pull a guesstimate of what something like this might cost out of their asses?

If you're driving your own vehicle, it's gonna cost about $135. That's 375 miles X .36 $/mile. Last I checked US DOT was saying that it cost 36 cents per mile to operate a motor vehicle.

FlakJacket · Post by **FlakJacket** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:35 am

But realistically, how many Chicago 'drekkers could we find with transport that'd do this? So anyone got an idea of hire car prices?

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 5:14 am

Cash wrote:Jodel has expressed an interest in going this year and Roadtripping it as well...

Bad. Ass.

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 12:14 pm

From a Planning point of view, I think this is very sweet - assuming Bob's prepared to let us back in his resort, which we don't yet have confirmed. (On the other hand, we spent a lot at the bar and we didn't break anything. That's got to be a plus.) It makes it damn easy, since we don't have to rack up blood pressure trying to find somewhere suitable.

From a personal point of view, I'm a lot more iffy about it, largely because my plans are so far up in the air. I *will* be at the Gathering, and I *will* be at GenCon, but at this stage I haven't worked out the logistics of how that's going to happen.

I guess I just want the masses to be happy, because that will make for a more successful Gathering. If the distance from Fox Lake -> Indy discourages people from going to the Gathering, then I'm against it, because I don't want anything to get in the way of 2003 being as good a Gathering as previous years. If not, then I'm not so worried.

MooCow · Post by **MooCow** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 2:11 pm

So anyone got an idea of hire car prices?

According to AAA I can rent a full-size 4 door car from hertz for about $410/week (picked up at O'hare). That includes all the taxes, insurance fees, etc etc. That should be unlimited mileage.

Twisted Sister · Post by **Twisted Sister** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 2:41 pm

FYI :: If you pick up a car at an airport you have to pay an extra charge...it's usually around $50 depending on the airport... thus may be worth checking into whether you have a Hertz/Avis/Whatever office a little closer to home.

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 2:53 pm

Cash wrote:ROADTRIP!!!!! *ahem*...much better.

So much for the 2002 Motto of "Next Year We Fly".

Anguirel · Post by **Anguirel** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 3:20 pm

Jestyr wrote:
Cash wrote:ROADTRIP!!!!! *ahem*...much better.
So much for the 2002 Motto of "Next Year We Fly".

Anybody got a small-plane pilot's liscense?

Salvation122 · Post by **Salvation122** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 7:49 pm

Sal's Car Economy, and the additional price if Plan Spangly is picked:

375/26 = 14.42 gallons of gas.
14.42/15.9 approx = 9/10 tank of gas.
Full tank of Regular Unleaded approx. = $26 after tax, locally - I have no idea what gas prices are like in Indiana.

Additional cost approx. = $24. That's highway efficency.

I can /maybe/ take a twenty-five buck hit. Maybe. But for a kid who'll be in college next year, my budget is already frightfully tight. Considering I'd have to go /past/ the turn to Indianapolis to get there, it's much more efficent to stay somewhere near the city.

Cash · Post by **Cash** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:54 pm

MooCow wrote:
So anyone got an idea of hire car prices?
According to AAA I can rent a full-size 4 door car from hertz for about $410/week (picked up at O'hare). That includes all the taxes, insurance fees, etc etc. That should be unlimited mileage.

And trust me, that option is a lot cheaper than paying for a large car bill...

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 11:04 pm

Better the Devil you know...

Hayes was a nice place, and knowing what they do have and where we could go to get the stuff we don't have would be nothing but good.

It's also worth pricing out vehicles like savannahs as well as smaller cars.

Cash · Post by **Cash** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 11:31 pm

Cazmonster wrote:It's also worth pricing out vehicles like savannahs as well as smaller cars.

What? 8/12 hovercrafts with medium lasers? *hides his Battletech book*

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 11:37 pm

Well, yeah. Imagine roadtripping in one of /those/...

Cash · Post by **Cash** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 11:46 pm

[maverick]Hey Goose. I feel the Need For Speed![/maverick]

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 4:51 am

There is one burning pain in the ass with Hayes - he only rents week to week. So we would have to commit to the Cabins 2 pm Saturday to 10 am the following Saturday.

Of course, this is from last year. It must be confirmed this year.

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 5:34 am

Even including that, though, last year pre-payers only had to pay $50, with Earl's very generous subsidy. This year, without the subsidy, it's still going to be very manageable, even if we /are/ hiring it for a bunch of days we're not using.

Thorn · Post by **Thorn** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 6:35 am

Hmm. Mr. Hayes /did/ agree to let us leave a day early and gave us a discount based on that. It's possible he might be willing to do that again.

If we did go back to Fox Lake, I do have some coupons off dinners, etc. in nearby Beaver Dam.... they're good until Sept.

And honestly, food/beverages (BEVERAGES!!) were crazy-cheap there. That is points in favor. Hmm.

Eeeeenteresting.........

Planning may want to call up Fox Lake to find out availability on the various cabins asap, because I know we were running into some scheduling stuff by this time last year - cabins already taken, etc. Though, if we could luck out into that 20-person cabin, we could probably manage to make things stupid-cheap.....

Here's their website, in case people have forgotten where it is.

Tryyng · Post by **Tryyng** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 9:04 am

one of the main things i liked about gencon this year was going to be its closer proximity. i'm already going to be making the long-ass drive from maryland in poor old Hal (same big damn bastard from Gencon 2000, but now with more mileage!) i'd really like to know how much this option would save over the others, since i've got to factor in the cost of running that lumbering land yacht there. Hal only gets about 20 mi/gallon, and i'd rather not put extra stress on his engine anyway.

as of right now, i'm against. things that might be interesting and may change my mind: train access. don't suppose this resort is close to a train, is it? 'course, i don't know if trains are actually cheap or not: i've never ridden in one. anybody got experience with travelling amtrack?

Cash · Post by **Cash** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:08 am

If it's not, any of us with cars would happily pick you up. The closest for Amtrack is probabaly Madison.

MooCow · Post by **MooCow** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 2:50 pm

There is one burning pain in the ass with Hayes - he only rents week to week. So we would have to commit to the Cabins 2 pm Saturday to 10 am the following Saturday.

Really? I didn't know that. He lists both nightly and weekly prices for the cabins. The nightly prices are not just the weekly divided by 7. And I don't see any mention of only renting by the week on the site. Am I missing it somewhere? Or was this something you only learned when you called?

MooCow · Post by **MooCow** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 3:14 pm

as of right now, i'm against. things that might be interesting and may change my mind: train access. don't suppose this resort is close to a train, is it? 'course, i don't know if trains are actually cheap or not: i've never ridden in one. anybody got experience with travelling amtrack?

www.amtrak.com

Ok, I played around with this, and their website sucks. It insists that there are no trains going from Salsibury to Madison. None going to Chicago. None going to Iindianapolis.

What I suspect this means is that there are no direct trains and the amtrak people are too stupid to provide a trip planner on their website. You have to already know what kind of connection you have to make in order to get there. But I suspect you could call them, and they would be glad to help you.

Just for reference, a trip from Chicago to New York costs $200 for 1 adult.

MooCow · Post by **MooCow** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 3:22 pm

An alternative to Amtrak would Greyhound. www.greyhound.com

Bouncing around on their site I discovered you can get from Salisbury to Madison in about 28hrs for $115. Alternatively you could go to Chicago in 23hrs for $59 (if you buy your ticket 7 days in advance).

Wildfire · Post by **Wildfire** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 2:38 am

Not to sound bad or anything, but what's so good about Hayes particular resort? If you're willing to drive 7 hours to get to Gencon, you're opening up a whole new wealth of opportunities of where you could go. Heck 7 hours from Indy gets you almost to my house. If you are serious about willing to drive 7 hours, I'd say look into whatever is in a 7 hour radius that might be interesting.

Ampere · Post by **Ampere** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 4:46 am

Either way we need to shit or get off the pot as far as decisions go. It's getting late in the game and people need to be able to set aside money and make deposits soon.

What I really want to know for certain is whether 7 hours is reasonable to the group. Of the people who ARE COMING, is this realistic?

Thorn · Post by **Thorn** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 5:13 am

Moo: We only found out about the weekly thing once we called. We also figured that since nightly prices were listed, we could just say, "We want Day X to Day Y. Is it open?" and that would be that. I'm not sure why nightly prices are listed - perhaps during the winter he's more lenient about the weekly-only policy. Considering the summer is probably his bread-and-butter, I can see that.

As far as, will we do it - for Caz and I, obviously, Hayes would be fine. Of course, it's an hour away. However, if we were to follow Wild's suggestion and consider other stuff 7 hours from Indy, we might have trouble with a 14-hour thing, supposing we found another alternative say, 7 hours /south/ of Indy or something.

I'll tell you this much - for our group, I can almost guarantee there's no better alternative in all of Wisconsin than Hayes. Not just because of price (although that's a big thing right there), but also because few people were willing and/or able to accommodate a group our size.

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 7:35 am

Wild: Hayes wasn't perfect, but it has the advantage of familiarity. Everyone who went last year knows how to get there again (including actually /finding/ it once you get to Fox Lake), we know what we're getting, and it's cheap. About $900 cheaper than Wasatch Lake, for example.

Basically, 7 hours away from Indy /sucks/. The only reason people are considering it, as far as I can tell is because it *is* Hayes, and we've been there before, and a number of people liked it a whole lot. I'll go 7 hours out of my way for the convenience of going to Hayes, where I've been before; I don't necessarily want to go 7 hours out of my way to somewhere that's a bit of a risk, and may not be nearly as suitable for us as Hayes was.

If you can suggest anywhere else that's just great for a Gathering, that's within 7 hours of Indy, we can look at it. But realistically, we don't have time to check out every potential Gathering spot within a 7-hour drive of Indy right now; we know Hayes will do the job.

That is, I think, the reasoning behind the focus on Hayes to the exclusion of other places at a distance from Indy.

This is, of course, not to say that we're not open to suggestions about good places.

Tryyng · Post by **Tryyng** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 7:13 am

...i really, really don't like the idea of spending an entire day riding a greyhound. i would end up in jail for violence towards everybody.

i really, really don't like the idea of driving seven hours past gencon. i have a hard time seeing how the benifits of the spangly option offset the cost in time, gasoline, and wear and tear on my car's engine. plus, that's some really, really boring scenery we're talking about to get there. if it's decided for the spangly, i'll still probably end up coming, but i think that you'll probably cut off many of the east-coasters who might otherwise have decided to show.

Cash · Post by **Cash** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 7:59 am

Fox Lake is already on the eastern side of the Mississippi.

Instant Cash · Post by **Instant Cash** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 2:34 pm

um, just let me know which state y'all are gonna be in and I will find you. Like it or not.

Liniah · Post by **Liniah** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 4:08 pm

Uhm, I don't really see how it would cut off the east-coasters anymore than the west. I mean, both years so far the gathering has been in the eastern half of the country. *shrug*

MooCow · Post by **MooCow** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 4:18 pm

i have a hard time seeing how the benifits of the spangly option offset the cost in time, gasoline, and wear and tear on my car's engine.

That's why you do like everyone else, and carpool with someone else.

Wildfire · Post by **Wildfire** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 9:40 pm

Jestyr wrote:If you can suggest anywhere else that's just great for a Gathering, that's within 7 hours of Indy, we can look at it. But realistically, we don't have time to check out every potential Gathering spot within a 7-hour drive of Indy right now; we know Hayes will do the job.

Not really, if its not within about 2 hours of Indy I can't go anyways, I was just curious if people were making a 7 hour exception for Hayes because it something they knew and didn't want to bother trying the other two options, or if the other two options were really that horrible that 7 hours was acceptable for anything

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 9:50 pm

Is there anything in Tenessee that doesn't suck ass?

Instant Cash · Post by **Instant Cash** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 10:06 pm

Cazmonster wrote:Is there anything in Tenessee that doesn't suck ass?

Well there is....

Or what about....

Hrm, nope, can't think of anything

MooCow · Post by **MooCow** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 11:30 pm

There are some places in Kentucky, mostly state/national parks. I haven't really had a chance to take a good look yet, but I turned up a few that apparently have cabins.

Liniah · Post by **Liniah** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 9:29 am

Oooh. Parts of Kentucky are really, really pretty. I was at some park by this huge lake surrounded by mountains/hills. Quite lovely. As for Tenn., I've only been through the citys.