Index Announcement installed

Kai · Post by **Kai** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:19 am

To test that its working, and so you know what it looks like. Reply whether you want the announcement bar to always be there, or only when there's an announcement.

MissTeja · Post by **MissTeja** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:27 am

If that's an option, I'd like it only there when there is an announcement. Otherwise, it just seems like unnecessary clutter to the front page, to me.

Kai · Post by **Kai** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:53 am

On second thought, tell me how you want it to look period, that's as good as I can come up with in the non-fugly looking dept and it still looks off

And yes, having it not display at all unless there's an announcement is perfectly doable.

Liniah · Post by **Liniah** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 1:13 pm

Well, as far as the front page looks to me, everything seems really cramed up at the top now. The spacing at the top was very nice before the bar came along. Now there's a big black area at the bottom and crowdedness up at the top. If the bar is going to be hidden unless there's an anouncement, then I suppose it doesn't much matter. I am also in favor of having it hidden.

MooCow · Post by **MooCow** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 1:39 pm

I agree with Lin, it looks a tad crowded. Can you position it so it's below the the arc in the upper left corner (where the cow and such is)? That would do alot to easing the cluttered look I think.

Also, does it have to be a box? Can it just sit on top of the "Forum" bar, all small and unobtrusive? It's good that it is something that is out of any of the other forums, but I don't see the need to smack people in the face with it. I mean, if I don't see an announcment what happens? Nothing. No one gets hurt, no money is lost, the world continues to rotate on it's axis.

Thanks for the work you all are doing.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 2:50 pm

We could drop the box but keep the location. That would allow prominence, without dominating the layout or wasting space.

And I agree that we should only keep it up when there's a new announcement.

And thanks for getting the X trailer off the front page! I kept trying to remember to remind you, but my brain is old.

Adam · Post by **Adam** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 3:04 pm

Perhaps the announcement box/area should be right aligned and only 50% or so of the screen width, making it feel more like a part of the "profile/usergroups/no new messages/" section...

3278 · Post by **3278** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 3:20 pm

There's definitely enough room in the table to put it in under the Account Switch. Does everyone think it would be prominent enough?

DV8 · Post by **DV8** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 3:23 pm

3278 wrote:There's definitely enough room in the table to put it in under the Account Switch. Does everyone think it would be prominent enough?

I think it might suffer quite a bit in prominence, considering how people pay more attention to the left side of the screen than the right, but I don't think it wouldn't be prominent enough, however. And it does seem like a good spot for it.

FlameBlade · Post by **FlameBlade** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:23 pm

My best suggestion to make it look better...

Remove that blue-filled box that says Announcement. We'd still know what that is regarding no matter what.

And also, I must wonder if it's possible to index announcements such that it expires after x amount of time.

Kai · Post by **Kai** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:48 pm

Time wise, all it does it pull any topics marked as an announcement in the Embassy forum and throw them to the index. So if I were to change the status of this topic to not be an announcement, it would go away

I believe there's a mechanism already in phpBB to expire announcements, but I'll check.

The right side is what a lot of sites do, have a little icon about halfway across the screen that indicates an announcement and stick the title to the right of it. I'll try that and we can see how it looks.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:38 pm

I say forget the icon, but I'm an image-hater from way back.

[Although you wouldn't know it from that giant fricken' arc!]

Kai · Post by **Kai** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:48 pm

Okay, check the Dev side - www.bulldrek.com/Dev - and see if you like that better. The problem with putting it directly under the account switch box is that's the page header. meaning the announcement bit would be on every single page on the site. Which would get annoying really fast.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:37 pm

I'd say, if the icon were removed - it's /huge!/ - we could put it in the header. It wouldn't take up any necessary space - just the unused space under the Account Switch - and being on every page would definitely make it noticeable, but a single line of text wouldn't be annoyingly obtrusive even if it were on every page, so long as the text wasn't enormous.

Kai · Post by **Kai** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 9:39 pm

Eh, yes and no, I would find it hugely annoying to have the announcement(s) on every single page, but that could be just me

pokes other people to respond here

MooCow · Post by **MooCow** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:31 pm

I think it's fine the way it is. Very nice.

EDIT: The way you have it on the development page that is.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:38 am

Kai wrote:Eh, yes and no, I would find it hugely annoying to have the announcement(s) on every single page, but that could be just me

Well, I'm a pretty lousy judge. I don't really even look at anything above the "content" section: the forum listing, the thread listing, that stuff. Ultimately, I'm just guessing about what other people would like.

Kai wrote:pokes other people to respond here

No crap! C'mon, peeps!

FlameBlade · Post by **FlameBlade** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:42 am

In a way...announcement needs to attract attention...and at the same time, noninstrustive....hmmm....

3278 · Post by **3278** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:44 am

Hey, who asked you!?

Oh, wait...

FlameBlade · Post by **FlameBlade** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:57 am

Build me a transporter so I can make it to Paul's bash. Just like Star Trek, and I'll see what more stuff I can say...

DarkMage · Post by **DarkMage** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:06 am

I think for the most part the example page is fine...but the icon is large...what about making the icon a little smaller and changeing the color to red...that would catch the eye on the blue and black ya know?

Big Jim · Post by **Big Jim** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:27 am

Ok, definitely don't like it as it is now, don't like it as it is on Dev.

Move it between the 'view your posts' line and the 'account switch' line, make the icon the same size as the text...hmmm...what about using the same functionality as the new posts? Display it when there's a new announcement, hide it otherwise. Or was that the plan all along?

Kai · Post by **Kai** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:45 am

Yes, only when there is announcements will it show

And putting it anywhere at or above the 'Fiction' link in the arc makes it part of the page-header, in case that wasn't terribly clear, meaning every page from posting to profile will have the announcements on it.

So thats a few people, anyone else care to chime in?

3278 · Post by **3278** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:55 am

Kai wrote:And putting it anywhere at or above the 'Fiction' link in the arc makes it part of the page-header, in case that wasn't terribly clear, meaning every page from posting to profile will have the announcements on it.

Yeah, I wasn't that clear, either. What I mentioned would look like <a href="http://www.3278.org/announcement01.gif">this</a>. [And like <a href="http://www.3278.org/announcement02.gif">this</a> for those intrepid do-gooders using [stripped].] In its favor, it takes up no extra space in either theme, and uses only [in this case] 85 bytes. [For reference, the current placeholder image is 13.7 times larger.] In its disfavor, it would appear on every page of the site whenever there's an announcement.

MissTeja · Post by **MissTeja** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:59 am

Okay, I don't like how it is on the Dev site, either. It's large, and the only problem that I see hasn't been brought up yet is that, when there is an announcement - after you have read it, it's quite possible you will not need to read it over and over and over. Therefore, the less obtrusive and clutter-hungry it is, the better, in my opinion. Earl's link to the other example is a bit more aesthetically pleasing. I like the idea of having the word "Announcement" in white. It makes it stand out, just enough, from the text above to make it a bit more noticeable, though without clashing with the page's color scheme.

FlakJacket · Post by **FlakJacket** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:26 am

Any way to have it markable like threads? By that I mean once you read it, you hit the little button and it goes away until a new one turns up and that appears. Combining that with the Dev version would be good.

Salvation122 · Post by **Salvation122** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:12 am

Here's a silly idea: instead of having something pop up on the frontpage to tell us there's an announcement in Embassy, could we have an automated PM sent when a new one is posted? Same functionality, no graphical issues.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 7:00 am

Hey, that's fucking brilliant. Aye!

Kai · Post by **Kai** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:13 am

Technically, yes, would we want to, no, because there's no way to differentiate active and non-active accounts, which means sending out, what, 200 PMs?

And really, Announcements shouldn't be long term things, 90% of the PMs people got about announcements would be outdated by the time the read them. Really, what's up there now shouldn't be there at all, but just wanted to show it. Announcements are things like 'the board may be flaky while an update is being done", things that apply really for less than 24 hours. At least that's what my understanding was. Anything else doesn't really need to be brought to the atention of everyone, if they are interested, they can check whatever forum its in.

I guess that might be a concern, too, what do you all consider announcements? I was thinking of them really soley for marking when Live code is being updated or transient problems with the website, or maybe if IRC is down.

DV8 · Post by **DV8** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:14 am

I vote nay. You're changing the system from a pull to a push system, which gets really annoying, really fast. Especially considering that most people have PM notification set to email them.

FlameBlade · Post by **FlameBlade** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:16 pm

I note vay to PM announcements...

Wait a minute...

I VOTE NAY to PM announcements.

DV8 · Post by **DV8** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:17 pm

Can there be an alternative "!" icon for announcement posts with new replies?

Salvation122 · Post by **Salvation122** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:11 pm

Kai wrote:Technically, yes, would we want to, no, because there's no way to differentiate active and non-active accounts, which means sending out, what, 200 PMs?

So what? Space isn't at a premium, I doubt the server load would be considerable (and even if it would, you can spread it out over about seven minutes if you send them 2 seconds apart,) and I know how I'd code it (though I have to learn the PHP conventions for doing so.)

And really, Announcements shouldn't be long term things, 90% of the PMs people got about announcements would be outdated by the time the read them.

Then what's the point of the announcement code at all? It's two additional clicks (or one, if you put the announcement in the title line and have a null body, like a NT post on old threaded boards.) If the timeframe is that small, I don't see a need for it.

I guess that might be a concern, too, what do you all consider announcements? I was thinking of them really soley for marking when Live code is being updated or transient problems with the website, or maybe if IRC is down.

I'd also use one to alert on a feature/functionality vote in Embassy. A lot of people don't traffic it becase it's usually bug reports, but they'd be interested in knowing if we're making changes.

Marius · Post by **Marius** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 7:15 pm

I wonder if something is possible.

I don't mind the look of the thing. I think the size could be cut down. Maybe just a border and smaller text like what was there for the X trailer. That would be very nice, and unobtrusive, though it would suffer in prominence unless there was something else. What I wonder is, is it the kind of thing that could be marked as read for each user, like a typical thread? And if it could be, could it display as a different color - say a really nice blood red - when there's a new announcement there?

Err, yeah, what Deev asked, ("Can there be an alternative "!" icon for announcement posts with new replies?") only with a nice blood red. *points to avatar color

Kai · Post by **Kai** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:15 am

In, well, no order.

Actual file size is not an issue. 200 more entires in the PM table for evvery announcement might be.

The point of Announcements code is to be visible on the index page, as its the page most people see first or at least see at some point while surfng.

My problem with text only is the fact that text, unless its a glaringly obvious color, is easily overlooked, and the point od announcements is to make people notice them.

The graphic has no relation to anything except I threw one together for looks. If we wanted to use it, hell yes it would be smaller both in filesize and dimensions.

Marked as read could be done I think (have never looked at the marked as read code before), so long as people don't mind that if you mark the announcement as read, it will marked the linked actual topic as read, too. Wouldn't even have to be a different icon, the whole announcement block could simply not display at all if there are no updated announcements.
functionality before, so

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:19 pm

Kai wrote:In, well, no order.

Actual file size is not an issue. 200 more entires in the PM table for evvery announcement might be.

Okay, could you either:

a) set the PMs to expire after a certain time? Say... five days, maybe. After that time, they're deleted. If the issue is only relevant for as short a time span as you suggest, that shouldn't matter.

or

b) instead of sending out 200 emails telling people "you have a new PM" and making them log into Bulldrek to see what the PM is, why not just send out the emails with the announcement in them?

FlameBlade · Post by **FlameBlade** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:21 pm

Well...

You all are forgetting the most important medium to get people's attention.

IRC. That will get majority of people up and going, and get enough noise to attract someone who never went to IRC to an announcement.

MooCow · Post by **MooCow** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:29 pm

I vote nay on PMs. From what Kai indicates, it would be for things I don't care about by the time I actually read the announcment.

Kai · Post by **Kai** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 7:42 pm

Well IRC is actually the problem. I've done that before when I was doing a code change or something, put it in the IRC topic, but half the people in IRC don't even bother to read it, let alone anyone who doesn't use IRC.

And the PM thing, there would be no way the differentiate announcement PMs from regular PMs meaning all PMs would expire at the set point which I'm sure people don't want. Email, its like Deev was saying, instead of passivly putting an anouncement up that if people happen to visit the site they see, you're activly forcing the announcement on people. I know I at least have 4 or 5 accounts, getting 5 PMs or emails for every announcement would really suck.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 7:54 pm

Could it be optional? "Recieve PM on announcement?"

We'll need, sometime, to vote on the layout issue. Someone should submit an announcement image, as well, if we're going to use an image [which I don't think we should].

Kai · Post by **Kai** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:09 pm

Optional PM is always available, simply a 'notify on reply' flag.

I think we need either an image or do as Marius suggested, and have the text in a hard to ignore red or something. I'll look at the mark as read code, too, and see if I can't figure out how to make that work for announcements as well.

Liniah · Post by **Liniah** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:56 pm

3278 wrote:
Kai wrote:And putting it anywhere at or above the 'Fiction' link in the arc makes it part of the page-header, in case that wasn't terribly clear, meaning every page from posting to profile will have the announcements on it.
Yeah, I wasn't that clear, either. What I mentioned would look like <a href="http://www.3278.org/announcement01.gif">this</a>. [And like <a href="http://www.3278.org/announcement02.gif">this</a> for those intrepid do-gooders using [stripped].] In its favor, it takes up no extra space in either theme, and uses only [in this case] 85 bytes. [For reference, the current placeholder image is 13.7 times larger.] In its disfavor, it would appear on every page of the site whenever there's an announcement.

I like the 'no pants' version. Looks nice, and yet, it's noticable. I don't like the huge icon- incredibly fugly. I don't like the PM idea too much. I'd only want it if you could choose to get the anouncement or not. (I most certainly would not.)

FlakJacket · Post by **FlakJacket** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:21 pm

I votes for the first version - the unstripped one. That and an optional opt-in PM thingy.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:24 pm

I like the no-pants version, too.

FlameBlade · Post by **FlameBlade** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:32 pm

I like the unstripped one...I can't believe I didn't see that first place...

3278 · Post by **3278** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:06 am

Which one is the unstripped one?

Kai · Post by **Kai** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:07 am

Okay, thats easy to do if you want it.

Now its your own damn fault if you fail to see an announcement :7 I'll see about adding some sort of switch to user profile to auto-watch anything marked as an announcement.

FlakJacket · Post by **FlakJacket** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:08 am

3278 wrote:Yeah, I wasn't that clear, either. What I mentioned would look like <a href="http://www.3278.org/announcement01.gif">this</a>.

Well that's the one I was refering to.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:13 am

Okay.

I should have been more clear about naming stuff in the first place.

Now, if we use the unstripped version on [bulldrek], we'll need to use the "stripped" version on [stripped], yeah?

Kai · Post by **Kai** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:15 am

Ish, yes

Actually, need to open a topic on that. Hang on