[Ancient Files]The Tapestry of fate

[Serious Paul]

So while reviewing some stuff at Ancient History's site I saw this:

The Tapestry of Fate

It's this big thing covered with abstract geometric designs, kind of Arabian- or maybe Celtic-looking, that make your eyes hurt if you look at it too long. It reminds me of those 3D fractals and "pop out" pictures that show up when you stare at something else. Word has it that President Haeffner likes to sit and stare at the tapestry when he needs to be alone and think. (poad.42,1)

In 2057, Dunkelzahn bequeathed this item to the UCAS government.

To the government of the United Canadian and American States, I leave the Tapestry of Fate, to hang in the home of the President as a reminder of Fate’s power to change our lives. (poad.32,2)

Unknown. It is possible the tapestry influences those who look at it in some way.

Portfolio of a Dragon: Dunkelzahn's Will

Huh?Does anyone else share that opinion?

My own thoughts are that this is some sort of divinaion magic or precog sort fo thing. Maybe even a littl centering foci thrown in for fun. I picture it coming to "life" when he stares at it, maybe showing him potential futures, or the like.

Am I nuts?

[Serious Paul]

Where is Steve Kenson and Jon Szeto and those in the know guys at when I want them?

[Ancient History]

<shrugs> Hey, I go with what I've got. You wanna bug SK, send him an e-mail. I'm sure I've got his address around here somewhere.
[/edit]Although may I say how glad I am that you're reading my site? Thank you.

[Reika]

Here's Steve Kenson's website which also has his email addy. I can testify from the past that he's really cool about discussing books he's written, it may take him a little while to respond, but he does.

Personally the way that's written, I think it's up to the individual GM as to the effects of the tapestry.

[Serious Paul]

Ancient I read your site on a regular basis. Usually once a week. I just recently got to this section.

[Caine Hazen]

What happened to all that stuff that was being cleaned out of the old FASA offices? I though I saw a scan on Dumpshock of an original manuscript to Dunkies will and the real meaning behind some of that stuff. Maybe someone round there has an idea

[Anguirel]

From the description, I'd say it's non-moving, but it has one of theose optical illusion style designs that crawls without needing to move.

Like, say... Not Work Safe No, wait, not that. Uh... This page has a bunch of static images that look like they're in motion.

As for being a focus or having other mystical properties - possible, but most of that can be assensed. No, I'd say it is purely physical in and of itself, but even so it may have been crafted with magical help, and it may have "mundane" powers of aiding concentration or making the mind work along lines it doesn't normally take (as some optical illusions tend to do).

At least, based on just the description posted above, that's what I'd say. There may be more material somewhere that would change my mind (but given AH's usual thoroughness, I'm doubting much more exists that he hasn't seen).

[Ancient History]

Paul: Once a week? Ghost, I don't read (or update, more's the pity) that often.

CaineHazen: Few of the people who got any of the boxes have gotten back to me. I have one picture of two pages with notes for Dunkelzahn's Will (I'll send you a copy if you like), but that's it.

[I am poison]

I would think that the painting does not have magical properties, but, rather, that Dunkelzahn knew Haeffner would turn to it (meaning himself) before Knight for answers. Likely Haeffner would suspect Dunkelzahn to have imbued the tapestry with magic and hopes to glean insight from whatever form of Divination it hold: I doubt Haeffner is a fool but suspect he lacked confidence. When he did stare into the tapestry and cleared his thoughts, he was able to make "wise" or at least intelligent decisions for the country. Perhaps he doesn't know if the thoughts are his own or not, but after winning the second election his self-doubt would be lessened. Sort of the proverbial Dumbo Feather.

[Serious Paul]

From the description, I'd say it's non-moving, but it has one of theose optical illusion style designs that crawls without needing to move.

Certainly a possibility. I keep thinking of thread magic. Where you to invest "karma" to make it work.

Like, say... Not Work Safe No, wait, not that. Uh...

This page has a bunch of static images that look like they're in motion.

Quite possible.

As for being a focus or having other mystical properties - possible, but most of that can be assensed.

What about things that can mask? ANyoen think its possible these items could read as mundane until powered up, so to speak?

[Ancient History]

What about things that can mask? ANyoen think its possible these items could read as mundane until powered up, so to speak?

Possible, although rare. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a magical item that can, by itself, pretend to be non-magical. The item's full enchantment may certainly lie dormant until the ambient mana rises to a level to sustain it, however.

[I am poison]

Off the top of my head, I can't think of a magical item that can, by itself, pretend to be non-magical.

That presents an interesting idea, however. What if the tapestry includes an Imp like creature - something with a similar life cycle but not nasty in and of itself? Perhaps it inhabits the tapestry and performs Divination in exchange for Karma or something. I wonder if Dunkelzahn was making a joke and that the creature's name is Fate (Tapestry of Fate, Fate’s power to change our lives).

[Serious Paul]

And while we're speculating, it could also contain a here to before unknown form of magic.

I'm not sure which I like best. IAP's idea seems like a neat one though, at least froma GM standpoint-plot hook for sure!

Thread magic: As I recall there was multiple ranks of this in any number of objects. Is that correct?

[3278]

Well, obviously it /could/ be totally mundane: just a complex tapestry with maybe some fourth-world history to it. It could also be...how do I explain it. In Earthdawn, magical items are made not just by enchantment, but by the events they're involved in. A sword used to kill the Horror that had murdered the helpless denizens of your caer would then take on magical properties, like inflicting a weakness on any Horror it's used on.

Perhaps the tapestry hung in the hall of a great civilization's capital, and stood witness over thousands of years of the rise and fall of the great and lowly. Perhaps even now it radiates the essence of our passages through time, the twists and confluences of fate and circumstance.

I guess it all depends on how you run your game. [Which is really the whole point.]

[Ancient History]

I take back what I said, the sword Purifier, a powerful magical artifact, was masked by a potent and permanent illusion that effectively masks its magical abilities and true nature.

Don't let the fact the a Tapestry is made of threads and the fact it's called "Thread Magic" confuse you; magicians did practice embroidery and all but it's more of a mindset and series of metaphors than actually knitting.

On another note, the Tapestry may be of Draconic origin, there's a superficially similiar type of item involving a type of weaving and the great dragon power to twist fate...I dunno. A thought. Have to include some of these in the next update, I reckon.

[FlakJacket]

Thread magic: As I recall there was multiple ranks of this in any number of objects. Is that correct?

Mael's probably the best person to talk to about this since he's a Earthdawn player from what I recall. Your best bet is to try and cath him in #bulldrek some time. But I'll take a stab at it anyway.

Everything in the Fourth World has a pattern in astral space, although it's usually simple and faint. Unique things though like people, certain places or objects though have Names and Unique Patterns. That's what makes Namegivers so powerful. If you weave a thread from your True Pattern to another, you change the way you're linked and interact with each other.

Now to weave a thread though you have to make a concscious effort and have to know certain Key Facts about the Pattern you're trying to link to. First Key Fact is the thing you're trying to link to and knowing its True Pattern. Other Key Facts include actual information on the object, things like the history and details of it. The more Key Facts you know, the more threads and more powerful they are can be weaved to an object making it more powerful for you to use.

Like I said, I'm not an ED player so you're best bet is Mael. But from what I've read for the President to link to it, he'd have to be magically active and know at least a little bit about its background. But that's playing by two Ages magic past rules so who knows?

[I am poison]

Very informative.

But from what I've read for the President to link to it, he'd have to be magically active and know at least a little bit about its background.

Consider that it may not be Haeffner who linked the Tapestry, but rather Dunkelzahn. As I understand it, the First Wyrm still exists and might be able to extend his power (limited as it may have become) to threaded items. Perhaps the Tapestry of Fate is something akin to the Bat Phone/Signal, thus placed to warn whoever controls the UCAS when the Horrors do break through? Or, as Ancient suggests, something to confer the dragon's Twist Fate power?

[Ancient History]

Many ancient items were crafted /before/ thread magic came into vogue, or after, and work for anyone...consider Craig Sanchez's token.

[I am poison]

This strays a bit from the topic, but would it be possible for a dragon to perhaps split part of itself off - similar to the Spirit of Denver - where separate parts of it can act independently? They would probably need some kind of Liferock or material item to stay corporeal...

Which leads me to a totally tangent thought about Ryumyo and the Child Emperor...

[Ancient History]

The Spirit of Denver's disintegration wasn't willing, and the sum of its parts may well not equal the whole thing. The component spirits don't appear to have much more than their origin in common.

Liferocks and obsidimen are something else again...each obsidiman is complete unto themselves, but also an extension of the Liferock elemental spirit, and are subsumed back into that spirit when they die (hopefully). In the same manner, all Liferock spirits are connected to one another, perhaps having a single source. If the Liferock dies, however, the obsidimen remain...although they definately feel the loss of the Liferock. Even if all the obsidimen join together, the Liferock spirit cannot be recreated, nor even a working fascimile.

As for dragons...drakes perhaps come closest, because their spirits and substance come from the dragons themselves, and as such the drakes act as a kind of obsidiman, though the nature of the bond may have more in common with that between an ally spirit/familiar and a master than an obsidiman and their Liferock.

Could a dragon become something like a Liferock? Very difficult to say. Their spirits can be bound to physical objects after their death (although this breaks draconic tradition), and there is no reason to suspect cybermancy might not work on a dragon; binding the spirit to the body. If the dragon created drakes and then bound the drake spirit into its own form using cybermantic magic, perhaps fusing the spirits together, it might come to approximate a Liferock...or it might go batshit insane and become the world's largest Horror bait.

[Anguirel]

The "original" Tapestry of Fate was woven by the Three Norns of Nordic Mythology. It symbolized all of creation, in a sense. Now -- could an item be crafted that was designed to inherently link itself to all beings and all things, however tenuously? Enough so that one could, perhaps look at it and (being the one nearest, having th emost control) be able to play out various scenarios in one's mind - and see the "effects" of each in the tapestry?

The author describes it as being unpleasant to look at for long periods - this would indicate the current discordant and chaotic nature of the Sixth World. If you could gauge, perhaps, whether it got more or less orderly based on major decisions (and thus, it would only work for someone in a position of significant power, such as Dunkelzahn or the President), it could easily help to guide those decisions toward whichever ends one desired (one would hope, in Haeffner's case, he'd want to move it towards more orderly or peaceful).

Also - a description of the "Twist Fate" power might help those of us who lack the relevant texts, but if such a power exists, that would certainly seem to be another potential meaning behind it. Or (assuming the above and that the power can heavily change the conditions of the world) it would point to the incredible utility of the tapestry to someone who has that power.

[Ancient History]

Now -- could an item be crafted that was designed to inherently link itself to all beings and all things, however tenuously? Enough so that one could, perhaps look at it and (being the one nearest, having th emost control) be able to play out various scenarios in one's mind - and see the "effects" of each in the tapestry?

Dunno. The Jewel of Memory might come close.

Also - a description of the "Twist Fate" power might help those of us who lack the relevant texts, but if such a power exists, that would certainly seem to be another potential meaning behind it. Or (assuming the above and that the power can heavily change the conditions of the world) it would point to the incredible utility of the tapestry to someone who has that power.

Twist Fate allows a great dragon to subtly twist the skein of things, to hinder others or promote their own actions...forcing a re-roll on a test to see if someone survives their fiery breath, cancelling a metahuman's use of karma to influence a test, lending a metahuman karma to use on a test, that sort of thing. Nothing immediately globe-altering.