[Shadowrun] Remove the Space from my game.

[Serious Paul]

Is anyone else just completely turned off by Outer Space in Shadowrun, as it has been presented so far?

I absolutely refuse to even consider running a game with space travel as its been currently presented-it's lame, and totally unrealistic to me. But that's just me, what do you think?

[Caine Hazen]

Actually I love it as it stands...the way it worked out lets you have a place for all the non-magic runners to shine. Plus if you have an mageuser whos high enough level, they think they can bypass the manawarp...let 'em keep thinking that. No I'm fine with the way it ended up. It also lends itself to new styles of Shadowrun play, which I like. Currently I really Love what Rob B and crew are doing with the game right now...I just hope they can keep away from the manga/anime style illustrators..I hate "big guns" and stylized robots and vehicles...go pick up some old books if you want to see how that stuff looked!

[I am poison]

I absolutely refuse to even consider running a game with space travel as it’s been currently presented - it's lame, and totally unrealistic to me. But that's just me, what do you think?

Could you site more specific examples? I've only glanced at the rules for it, but the fiction seems exactly how I would use it. As Caine states it is the perfect place for a mundane game, and with a space race between the megacorporations beginning the potentials are opening for a game based fully in space and not just as some tack on adventure to the Freefall resort.

I personally won’t argue about the level of realism if you mean in terms of how much crime and such supposedly happens there. I could try to justify it by mentioning the inherent desperation of those willing to spend months to years in orbital death traps along with the haphazard methodology that is often applied to space development due to the continuous rise of setbacks and unexpected costs with inherently minimal profits from initial investments, which makes claim jumping near realistic. Never the less, until cost effective launching methods are introduced, I think it is unrealistic to expect a large criminal element. But that doesn’t detract from the setting for me, because I feel that’s partly the point of my Shadowrun games.

And go Yamatetsu, go.

[Serious Paul]

The Probe race was okay-although the Wake of the Comet run that has the PC's lifting into outer space, something I think should never happen period, is incrediblely lame. The idea that there are space pirates or orbital bandits is junk in my opinion. Ground based radar would pretty much make secrecy a thing of the past, meaning only the biggest powers could afford the type of stealth tech you'd need.

Freefall resort=ass.

the way it worked out lets you have a place for all the non-magic runners to shine.

Any game can be run that way in my opinion. don't like magic, or don't want to use it? It's really easy to do.

Just the entire concept sucks for me.

[I am poison]

The Probe race was okay-although the Wake of the Comet run that has the PC's lifting into outer space, something I think should never happen period, is incrediblely lame.

Wake of the Comet does not send the player characters into space. The module mentions a way to do such for GMs interested in playing a space based game by having the Proteus probe launch before they can stop it, but it provides nothing beyond a suggestion about what to do from there.

The idea that there are space pirates or orbital bandits is junk in my opinion. Ground based radar would pretty much make secrecy a thing of the past, meaning only the biggest powers could afford the type of stealth tech you'd need.

Deckers could easily thwart ground-based radar and combined with sparsely applied radar absorbent material one’s craft could easily look like orbiting rubbish. Proper trajectories aligned against hostile radar stations could avoid detection most of the time, time-delay, and, going back to deckers, forged flight plans or legitimate front companies would further hide bandits.

Freefall resort=ass.

The most realistic aspect of Shadowrun space development is bunk? The driving factor behind current development of space is tourism. How is a megacorporation taking full advantage of that “ass”?

Any game can be run that way in my opinion. Don't like magic, or don't want to use it? It's really easy to do.

The point being that one can now have a balanced team of magicians, cybered, and complete mundanes. The security in place around launch facilities makes sending any but the most mundane, non-augmented runners more dangerous. Having a place where such characters can have a shining star role in a run is nice.

Just the entire concept sucks for me.

“Any game can be run that way in my opinion. Don't like magic, or don't want to use it? It's really easy to do.” What exactly were you looking for?

[Serious Paul]

Exactly what I said-other views. I know dislike it. Maybe I don't have all my thoughts organized, and I'm fine with that. But I want to see what other people think. Am I alone, or so others share my opinion? Can I learn from theirs?

[I am poison]

What I meant was, "what are you looking for from space?" in the context of Shadowrun.

[Serious Paul]

Hmm good question. Give me some time to think about that.

[Serious Paul]

What I meant was, "what are you looking for from space?" in the context of Shadowrun.

I realized my answer finaslly. I am not looking for space int he game at all. I do not think its should play a major roll period. Other than the occassional mention, it shouldn't be a part of the sixth world from a player perspective-in a similar vein nuclear weapons, Damien Knight, and Dragons fall under this catergory for me.

There's no reason for a player to encounter any of these and live.

[I am poison]

I am not looking for space in the game at all. I do not think its should play a major roll period. Other than the occasional mention, it shouldn't be a part of the sixth world from a player perspective - in a similar vein, nuclear weapons, Damien Knight, and Dragons fall under this category for me.

I can understand that, though I wonder if you had considered other game types such as those where the characters are bodyguards for corporate executives or similar and must accompany him or her to testify before the Corporate Court (and so on)? Regardless of my view on the matter, I can respect not wishing to push the realm of "realism" with large active criminal elements in space, but even games where the player characters are cosmonauts could have potential for fun and mayhem.

One of the great failings, and advantages, of third edition’s rule set is that they've tried to please everyone by expanding the "playing field" and archetype roles. With every new fleshing of the world they add more options for occupations as well as trying to continuously add shadowrunning hooks - even where none should "plausibly" exist.

I still don’t understand your assertion about the Freefall resort, however. It seems the ideal place for the team that finally snagged a blood mage and used a huge chunk of the reward to escape the Gestalt’s revenge (ritual sorcery against targets in space is an extra special level of difficulty) and a perfect way to fake one’s death when the shuttle the characters were supposed to be on was hulled by a meteor or broke apart on reentry, the evidence now nicely out of reach.

And that’s just one hook.

Spying on the secret rendezvous of Rowena O’Malley and Arthur Vogel while maintaining the disguise of a rich couple off on their honeymoon, going as a disgruntled business man forced to take a vacation there in order to smuggle yourself onto a Yamatetsu supply ship as it heads back to Earth to access the IC ridden military computer host for a single satellite access code, and so on. Obviously, these are mission for professional industrial spies, not starting characters, but they seem really... well, cool from my perspective. And, while all of them have a high chance of character fatality, they are about using your brains over magic and cyber.

[Serious Paul]

After 7 years I basically still feel the same, although maybe my opinions are a little more coherent. Space does not belong in Shadowrun for a variety of reasons as I see it. Shadowrun is CyberPunk, and Space is not. Out Space basically discards the setting, and puts into place a whole new setting, and that's not what I want! Obviously each to their own, but I still dislike the whole YoTC/WoTC arc.

[3278]

Shadowrun is CyberPunk, and Space is not.

I agree, except we're both wrong: space plays a huge role in, say, Neuromancer [whatever else I may think of that work] and bunches of other clearly cyberpunk books. But it still doesn't feel like cyberpunk to me, even though it makes complete sense.

For my part, I prefer it to take a back seat to terrestrial events, to be something going on in the background that, as Paul says, like nuclear weapons, aren't part of the players' daily lives, but that, like I am poison says, might come up here and there. I don't think we need a sourcebook for it; it should just be a part of the other sourcebooks. But I understand the desire for one, anyway.