[Shadowrun] Novatech woes

Patience · Post by **Patience** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:33 pm

Anyone have any ideas about what's going to happen to Novatech/Villiers? Educated guesses? Wild speculation? I'm just curious. It's been my favorite for a while - I'm a trifle dismayed that it looks like Dankwalther's going to carve it into tiny pieces.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:01 pm

It'll take years for Art to get the cash together to make a serious stab at destroying Novatech; and Villiers is smart enough to have some defenses in place.

My bet is that Novatech is going to expand, continuing the small-but-high-tech stuff, branch into programming for some innovative IC or proggies maybe. Old Fuchi assets and space/nanotech outfits would be prime targets for Novatech acquisition or development.

FlakJacket · Post by **FlakJacket** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:32 pm

Um, have you read the latest SotA release AH? They're already in a pretty tight situation. It talks about them defaulting on some pretty serious loans they had outstanding IIRC, something that is a Very Bad Thing(TM) for corporations.

And on the space front, didn't they mostly make off with most of them through things like Walker Aerodesign? The Villiers faction mostly had a lock on Fuchi's orbital assets and stole everything they could, hence Novatech's massive rankings in the space industry section.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:48 am

Actually, no, I haven't read SOTA64 yet <display_embarassed>. I just got my comp copy yesterday and all...<shrugs>.

Patience · Post by **Patience** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:50 pm

Yeah, I thought they'd already pretty much maximized their space leverage.

AH, Artie boy's mentioned in Threats 2, as well.

Patience · Post by **Patience** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:08 pm

c'mon, people, speculate for me. *bigeyes* please?

FlakJacket · Post by **FlakJacket** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:24 pm

Whilst I could see them coming unstuck and the Japanacorps trying to recorner their influence on the Corporate Court by boosting corps like Yakashima to triple A status, I really don't want it to. For some reason, Novatech along with Transys, Wuxing and Yamatetsu are my favourite corps as it were.

Jeff Hauze · Post by **Jeff Hauze** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 9:45 pm

Artie's going to smack them down. That disappoints me heavily, but with the overall lack of quality metaplot ideas recently, it seems like the prevailing attitude of "What haven't we done yet?" will bring about the true death of a megacorp. Considering how big and bad megas (true Triple A's) have been built up to be since the inception of Shadowrun, I'm curious if any real attention will be paid to the effects of having a mega fall.

FlakJacket · Post by **FlakJacket** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 1:15 am

Technically Villiers could be operating out of a fleabag apartment over a laundrette as a one man show and he'd still have a triple A rating thanks to JRJ International, but I get what you mean. If one of them went down, even a smallish one like Novatech it's blood in the water time- it'd touch off a fight for the remains of the company. And that could get messy.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 1:28 am

Am I all alone when I see Fuchi as the first "dead" megacorp? I mean, as dead as a megacorp can be?

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:25 am

Jeff Hauze wrote:Artie's going to smack them down.

While I agree thats hinted at, the event has yet to happen. I'm not sure if Villiers is the guy to let that happen. Villiers has been built up pretty hard as well-which makes sense given whom would run a AAA Mega.

That disappoints me heavily, but with the overall lack of quality metaplot ideas recently,

Not to be snippy or challenging, but what was the last new product you've picked up? Some of the new stuff isn't all that bad. Some of it is getting better.

Considering how big and bad megas (true Triple A's) have been built up to be since the inception of Shadowrun, I'm curious if any real attention will be paid to the effects of having a mega fall.

Oh yeah I agree here. But I'm not sure how possible it is for anyone to accurately pull this off. It would be like trying to predict what would happen when the Soviet Union fell in 1950. You just don't have enough information.

Jeff Hauze · Post by **Jeff Hauze** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 3:14 pm

FlakJacket wrote:Technically Villiers could be operating out of a fleabag apartment over a laundrette as a one man show and he'd still have a triple A rating thanks to JRJ International, but I get what you mean. If one of them went down, even a smallish one like Novatech it's blood in the water time- it'd touch off a fight for the remains of the company. And that could get messy.

Messy would not even begin to describe it. We're talking about multi-national/global companies that have been described as the smallest (of the AAA) having yearly revenues that easily dwarf the GNPs of several of the world's superpowers combined. They build secret research facilities, armed to the teeth with military defenses and vehicles, field private armies and special operations units. They own and control naval vessels, space based comm platforms (and I wouldn't doubt a few tactical space based weapon platforms), likely have plenty of WMD assets at their disposal if ever needed...the list goes on.

Picture this for a second...not only the death of a megacorp, but a bloodless death. No great corp war, no nuclear holocaust as I've thought of with Death of the Doves...no bang, just a whimper. Artie is talking about financial draining away the resources of Novatech. With the amount of liquid assets he could bring to bear, it may just work. Imagine a Fuchi spec ops team leader, or Fuchi naval sub commander, or a highly specialized chemtech researcher who is losing money from stock prices dropping. Paychecks are showing up short, minus bonuses or combat/hazard pay. Subsidized housing and utilities are not being payed. Services available in corporate arcology housing are being cut off or lessened. You would have what the former USSR is facing now. Military personnel and research personnel would be looking for ways to supplement their income or even have any income by resorting to selling their supplies and skills to the highest bidder. But this would not only be affecting one nation but the entire world market.

As for the JRJ factor you mention, sure he would still be a AAA if he worked out of a single one-room office. But Villiers would never retain ownership of the company or even live long with that expensive corporate protection and legal protection that Novatech as a mega provides him. Another mega would own JRJ in a snap.

Jeff Hauze · Post by **Jeff Hauze** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:38 pm

Serious Paul wrote:
Jeff Hauze wrote:Artie's going to smack them down.
While I agree thats hinted at, the event has yet to happen. I'm not sure if Villiers is the guy to let that happen. Villiers has been built up pretty hard as well-which makes sense given whom would run a AAA Mega.

Agreed, on a common sense note. But most metaplot elements recently seem to toss common sense out the window a bit too often for my tastes. That's why I say Artie will win. It holds too much off the "underdogs winning is cool, corps are bad!" attitude of the writing of the last two to three years, a style found very heavily in SONA and SOE. I also have reservations that the real effects of a mega falling would ever be detailed. That level of detail does not seem to be the direction SR development team is taking the product any longer. That's neither good nor bad as far as I can see yet. I'm curious to see what the newer directions will take SR, so I'm holding judgement yet.

Serious Paul wrote:Not to be snippy or challenging, but what was the last new product you've picked up? Some of the new stuff isn't all that bad. Some of it is getting better.

If you had asked me that same question at last year's GenCon, I would have agreed with you in a second flat. Sprawl Survival Guide and Dragons of the Sixth World really impressed me. YotC had a great deal of potential but overall, it left a not so good taste in my mouth. Certain aspects of it were wonderful, but the rest just seemed to fall very flat for it being such a hyped event. Enough of a tangent though.

SONA, and more importantly SOE, both seemed to have not near enough diversity between the various factions. It seemed like mostly the same events with different names and faces for each country. Each faction's cultural and social uniqueness seemed to be ignored in favor of way too much uniformity, specifically from megacorp influence. Let me clarify here. The recent books are certainly improving. The actual metaplot events and storylines seem to be of much lesser quality, with less detailed insights and not enough internal consistency. It could just be my tastes, but as my above posts towards Flak shows, I think the megacorp influence in the SR world is highly overrated while the actual effects of their actions are highly underrated. That one issue right there goes to explaining a whole host of problems with recent metaplot developments in my book.

Serious Paul wrote:Oh yeah I agree here. But I'm not sure how possible it is for anyone to accurately pull this off. It would be like trying to predict what would happen when the Soviet Union fell in 1950. You just don't have enough information.

As I said above, megas really need to be reworked as a concept in SR. It may have seemed good in '89, but it's starting to look really bad in '04.

Jeff Hauze · Post by **Jeff Hauze** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:41 pm

Oh, and back on topic for a moment...Novatech rocks. The only real true-blue good old American capitalist corp out there without all the silly trappings and plans of Ares. Novatech disappearing would suck horribly. Get rid of one of the multitude of far too many Japanacorps that all tend to break down to "White men suck."

FlakJacket · Post by **FlakJacket** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:39 pm

Jeff Hauze wrote:As for the JRJ factor you mention, sure he would still be a AAA if he worked out of a single one-room office. But Villiers would never retain ownership of the company or even live long with that expensive corporate protection and legal protection that Novatech as a mega provides him. Another mega would own JRJ in a snap.

If it all went south then I could see him selling out to one of the smaller corps. Sell JRJ to any company in the world and they immediately become a tripple A Megacorporation that can never be kicked off the Court. Double A's or even some of the tripple A's that aren't guarenteed a Justice on the Court would pay hundreds of millions if not billions for this. He takes payment in cash and stock and takes a position in the corporation for personal protection. Wuxing or Transys would be good examples of people that'd almost certainly agree to something like this.

Jeff Hauze wrote:Oh, and back on topic for a moment...Novatech rocks. The only real true-blue good old American capitalist corp out there without all the silly trappings and plans of Ares. Novatech disappearing would suck horribly. Get rid of one of the multitude of far too many Japanacorps that all tend to break down to "White men suck."

Yakashima. As a double A corp that's the 'takeover king' of Japan that hostilely buys out a corp and then strips it for a profit I'd find it funny if someone did just that to them. Plus they're pretty much assholes.

Jeff Hauze · Post by **Jeff Hauze** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:53 pm

FlakJacket wrote:If it all went south then I could see him selling out to one of the smaller corps. Sell JRJ to any company in the world and they immediately become a tripple A Megacorporation that can never be kicked off the Court. Double A's or even some of the tripple A's that aren't guarenteed a Justice on the Court would pay hundreds of millions if not billions for this. He takes payment in cash and stock and takes a position in the corporation for personal protection. Wuxing or Transys would be good examples of people that'd almost certainly agree to something like this.

Flak gets my Elitist Bastard nomination to write all further Novatech material. Good play there, old chap.

I am poison · Post by **I am poison** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:15 pm

I feel that Dunkelzahn invented Art Danthwalker to prevent Novatech from becoming too powerful, too quickly. I doubt that Art, even with the skill he has shown to possess, could actually topple Novatech - if only because Villiars can gut small corporations faster than the market can downgrade his stock value. Therefore, the best Art can do would remain slowing Novatech's climb. Remember that Dunkelzahn's plan, as far as we can see, was to encourage investment in individual people and small companies.

When you examine the megacorporate playing field, most, if not all have found themselves confronted with distractions and obstacles - save Novatech who's rivals (Renraku, Shiawise, Ares, Cross, and MCT) are all confronted with situations that prevent them from currently challenging it. Art is Dunkelzahn's stopgap measure to keep the playing field level between the big 10.

Jeff Hauze · Post by **Jeff Hauze** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:50 pm

First off, Art is a pretty powerful "stopgap measure." Secondly, of all the corps out there, Novatech is in no real danger of overrunning the playing field. Novatech's tough as nails, and they can sure scrap. They have Lanier and Villiers, sure, which makes them a credible threat. But they lost a great deal of assets in the transition from Fuchi to Novatech. They've been hurt on several occasions as they cross paths with Cross (no pun intended) and the Seraphim. And honestly, the damage to Renraku is overrated from the Arcology incident. The only reason that the damage is shown as so extensive is the fact that virtually all of the SR books focus on Seattle as being the real seat of power for most of the world's factions.

Shiawase and MCT's "distractions" aren't really that major, anymore than some of the board's infighting that exists on every corporate board. Overall, I really don't see that much of a stopgap needed against Novatech. And personally, if it was used a stopgap rather than a plot device to plan for the death of a corp, it seems a little...odd. It would just bring up very bad memories of Leonardo (sorry Flak, but curse the UK for spawning those Terrible Twins) as a horribly weak plot device.

DV8 · Post by **DV8** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:28 pm

It's funny and scary to see how quickly I've fallen behind on current affairs by simply playing another game for a couple of months.

Cash · Post by **Cash** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:41 pm

You and me both, Deev. Ugh.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:41 pm

I really don't see that much of a stopgap needed against Novatech. And personally, if it was used a stopgap rather than a plot device to plan for the death of a corp, it seems a little...odd.

More importantly, I would start wondering what other Stop gaps are out there. Obviously Dunkelzahn would have more than one in place against each and every corporation.

I am poison · Post by **I am poison** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:43 pm

First off, Art is a pretty powerful "stopgap measure."

Not really. Perhaps if he had managed to keep it secret it would change the game, but I doubt any conspiracy of this type could be kept under wraps. I expect Dunkelzahn knew this as well seeing as how he was impressed initially by Shadowland and then began to use it as a tool for spreading suspicion. Warned of the threat, Novatech will act cautiously (see Flaks mentions of their recent behavior) and try to smoke out Art, or at least out last him. While he inherited a large chunk of cash from Dunkelzahn, it is not a vast and endless pool, nor does he have far reaching corporations to draw from.

Secondly, of all the corps out there, Novatech is in no real danger of overrunning the playing field. Novatech's tough as nails, and they can sure scrap. They have Lanier and Villiers, sure, which makes them a credible threat But they lost a great deal of assets in the transition from Fuchi to Novatech. They've been hurt on several occasions as they cross paths with Cross (no pun intended) and the Seraphim.

Sure, I can agree, but Dunkelzahn didn't destroy Fuchi to see it rise again in the form of Novatech. He wanted a smaller, meeker replacement to encourage individual entrepreneurship lacking in (specifically) North American society. The reasoning I think has more to do with a long-term desire to see nations compete with corporations on an equal power scale.

And honestly, the damage to Renraku is overrated from the Arcology incident. The only reason that the damage is shown as so extensive is the fact that virtually all of the SR books focus on Seattle as being the real seat of power for most of the world's factions.

Renraku will likely lose many, if not all, government database contracts and must retrofit all their arcology and facility computer systems. A heavy blow, and one that Novatech would not overlook. I expect that many SIN registries and bank systems now have the Novatech logo and not Renraku.

Shiawase and MCT's "distractions" aren't really that major, anymore than some of the board's infighting that exists on every corporate board.

I was considering more their attempts to regain Japan and the fight with Yamatetsu along with Tsimshian, Saito, and the whole of the Pacific Prosperity Group. Nothing they won’t survive, but certainly enough to keep them busy. Shiawase’s main problem is they are a bunch of cautionary protectionist who don’t act or change unless the snake bites them in the ass.

Overall, I really don't see that much of a stopgap needed against Novatech.

Did you see a need to destroy Fuchi? Dunkelzahn had a plan for North America, and a powerful Novatech worked against that plan. Personally, I think it's part of the New Revolution and that a strong Novatech would have distracted from the central government. I doubt Novatech will ever die in the game, just as I doubt the New Revolution will win, just as the Horrors never arrived. And so on. They are plot devices to create complex runs of intrigue, not to actually change the world.

FlakJacket · Post by **FlakJacket** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:25 am

Jeff Hauze wrote:It would just bring up very bad memories of Leonardo (sorry Flak, but curse the UK for spawning those Terrible Twins) as a horribly weak plot device.

Oh don't worry, I probably despise their work as much- if not more so- than you do. I mean, you didn't get the London sourcebook foisted on you. And the less said about Tir Na nOg the better as fas as I'm concerned.

Maelwys · Post by **Maelwys** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 8:16 pm

SOTA:2064 has a small paragraph on Artie. Unde the "Top 10 wanted Suits/Scientists" he's listed at number 1. According to the blurb, he's continued to take bites and chunks out of Novatech, he's rejected any attempt by Novatech to reach a peace accord (rather violently the rumors say), and Villiers has offered a 5 million nuyen bounty on his head, dead or alive (supposedly).

There's even a suggestion that the pressure is on Villiers to stepdown.

So who knows, we'll probably be seeing more of Artie in future products.

I am poison · Post by **I am poison** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:09 am

Maelwys wrote:So who knows, we'll probably be seeing more of Artie in future products.

I tend to agree with that after reading State of the Art: 2064. I will go one further and suggest that the upcoming book[s] Synner mentions here, Critical Error and System Crash, will deal further with Novatech and Danthwalker.

I also found it strange that Renraku is mentioned as unable to recover the arcology due to cash flow, and that they hand it over to Seattle (which I thought was hilarious), though it does agree with my point.

FlakJacket · Post by **FlakJacket** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:20 am

Another thought, what happens if and when Villiers dies? Since JRJ is a private corp that means it passes to either his next of kin or designated beneficiery. So taking the most obvious choices that means either his shadowrunning daughter or wife respectively- I just can't really see Lanier getting it. For arguments sake, lets say that Artie boy takes out both Villiers and his wife Samantha in the same incident. This means that a shadowrunner has just inherited an Corporate Court seat and the whatever remains of a triple A Megacorporation. Can you imagine what would come out of that?

I am poison wrote:I also found it strange that Renraku is mentioned as unable to recover the arcology due to cash flow, and that they hand it over to Seattle (which I thought was hilarious), though it does agree with my point.

Depends on who's having to pick up the tab. If it's Renraku the central holding company then maybe, but if Renraku North America is having to sort it out by themselves without outside assistance then it could take some time and doing to organise.

Patience · Post by **Patience** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 12:45 am

FlakJacket wrote: This means that a shadowrunner has just inherited an Corporate Court seat and the whatever remains of a triple A Megacorporation. Can you imagine what would come out of that?

I'd imagine Lainier would make her an offer, or make others an offer to remove her. Cara hates her parents; it's why Samantha has to hire runners every now and again to keep tabs on her.

I guess it depends on how MUCH she hates her parents and their world. Would she really want to re-enter that world as their scion and heir?

FlakJacket · Post by **FlakJacket** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:57 am

Doubtful, just seems to come off a little too loyal to me. I mean he's had enough stock to force taking a seat on Renraku's board and he's had countless opportunities to enrich himself at Villiers expense, all without taking them. In a way I could kind of see him becoming advisor to her if she inherited the company unexpectedly. Or he could decide he's put in enough time with daddy and he's taking over the show like you said.

Cynic project · Post by **Cynic project** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 9:25 pm

I find it hard to think that Artie is doing all this damage and no one else is looking into to ways to use this. Just off the top of my head ZIC could move in to help Nova tech,and form one the biggest corps in the world. As noted that ZIC is the world's biggest AA,and is about the size of the the smaller AAA's. This is not counting other AAA's who surely kill Art,and ditch out the little Nova tech for another vote on the CC.

On a slightly off topic note, how many votes do each of the AAA's have? i only know that Wuxing,Cross and Nova only have one.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:27 pm

[Edit] I meant Council. What he says below.

Oh and welcome. Nice to see new faces over here.

I am poison · Post by **I am poison** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:36 pm

Saeder-Krupp has three seats on the Corporate Court. Aztechnology had two or three and now has one less (position filled by Wuxing, IIRC). I'd have to check Blood in the Boardroom to tell you the rest.

Cynic project · Post by **Cynic project** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:12 pm

Well, to be honest I am only here because it seems Dumpshock forums are not working.I will be here form time to time,but it just seems not many people post here.

Reika · Post by **Reika** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:06 am

This time of year is always quiet, it'll start up once the holiday season is over. Besides, it's always good to have new folks posting.

Cynic project · Post by **Cynic project** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 4:42 am

I hate holidays....

I am poison · Post by **I am poison** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:53 pm

Well, Blood in the Boardroom does not seem to declare the exact seats of the Corporate Court in any straight forward manner. I do recall, however, that Corporate Download listed profiles of the Justices and will therefore check that next. You can expect the same time-frame for that search as well.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:10 pm

Corp Download? I have that if you want I know the section, I'll post it tommorrow.

I am poison · Post by **I am poison** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:40 pm

If you would be so kind, I will thank you.

Cynic project · Post by **Cynic project** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:43 pm

The only corp with two seats are Ares,Mits,and SK... Fuchi also had two. I found this in Blood in the Boardroom.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:23 pm

Sorry for the delay, either I've misplaced a few books or 3278 has them. I've PMed him, and I'll be going through my house as fast as I can.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 10:09 pm

As of early 2061, the court justices are:

Yves Aquillion [Cross]
Alexander Belczyk [S-K]
Neil Benson [Renraku]
Raphael Colemno [Mitsuhama]
Li Feng [Wuxing]
Paul Graves [Ares]
Yoshiko Hino [Yamatetsu]
Octavia Laux [Ares]
Steven Nishimura [Shiawase]
Lynn Obsborne [Novatech] [Soon to be replaced by Benjie Hackett]
Jean-Claude Priault [S-K]
Anna Villalobos [Aztechnology]
Leonard Yang [Mitsuhama]

Is that what you needed?

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 10:23 pm

I believe so.