[Shadowrun]General Electric Vindicator Minigun.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:35 am

Okay some questions about the General Electric Vindicator minigun.

Can you short charge the barrel rotation speed to effect slower rotation, and therefore a more silent weapon-no firing involved here-?
Can you use excessive charge, or power to bring the barrels up to speed quicker?
How difficult would this be to cybernetically control?
Could the Vindicator chamber rounds other than 5.56 MM or 7.62MM (Which is what I assume it chambers.)? In example 9MM?
What effect do you think shortening or lengthening the barrels would have?

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:41 pm

Can you short charge the barrel rotation speed to effect slower rotation, and therefore a more silent weapon-no firing involved here-?

If, presumably, you managed to slow the rotation, then the barrel would take /longer/ to get up to speed and it would still probably have an audible electric whine.

Can you use excessive charge, or power to bring the barrels up to speed quicker?

No. 1 round. Take it or leave it.

How difficult would this be to cybernetically control?

The weapon itself can easily be cybernetically controlled. Fucking with the speed of the rotating barrels would require some extra hardware and a modification to the weapon itself. If it would work, then you could presumably write a program to help you control it fairly easily.

Could the Vindicator chamber rounds other than 5.56 MM or 7.62MM (Which is what I assume it chambers.)? In example 9MM?

Go ask Raygun. We SR people have standardized ammunition among weapons of certain classes. That said, you're not going to be able to put rounds from your Glock into the Minigun, just forget it. You want better ammo, go buy APDS or something. I'd suggest tracers.

What effect do you think shortening or lengthening the barrels would have?

All your other street samurai and mercenary friends will laugh at you. Plus, you'd probably fuck your range/accuracy all to Hell. But it would be a little lighter or heavier.

ak404 · Post by **ak404** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 5:17 pm

To answer your first and second question, no. The bolts needed to, er...fire the bullets are dependent on the speed of the motor used to fire the damned thing. The speed of the motor is perfectly suited to the timing of the bolts. If you slow it down or speed it up, this'll (presumably, since my knowledge of miniguns is slight) fuck up the rhthym of the bolts...or just slow down your rate of fire, but if you're not using a minigun for the sheer amount of bullets it can spit out, why're you using one in the first place?

Besides, what makes all that noise isn't the barrel assembly but the electric motor combined with the supersonic bangs of 6,000 rounds a minute (or 15 rounds a combat turn, in SR terms). Just cast a silence spell on it: but then again subtle != minigun.

Third question. Because you can't change the speed of motor, cybernetic controls would be no more complicated than fire/don't fire and move.

The Vindicator is loosely based on the GE XME134 minigun. IIRC, it takes7.62 and 5.56 via belt feed. Putting a clip on a Vindi is just insane: even with a 60 round clip, you'll burn through the damned thing in four combat rounds. If you want to use 9mm Luger/Parabellum rounds, use an Ares HVAR: 9mm is pistol round, and by SR rules, qualifies as a light pistol round.

Unless you've mounted this on a gyroscope (you are using a gyroscope, right?), either will fuck up your aim and balance. It'll fuck up your aim beause you're chopping off space that could've been used for rifling (shortening), though this might not be a huge problem if you're aiming for short-range combat (no pun intended). Shortening or lengthening the barrels will fuck up your balance because you're moving your center of balance off by a just a few but crucial inches - though this hardly matters when you're firing a fucking minigun. It just takes time to get used to, just like it would to apply a flash suppressor to the end of a minigun.

Anguirel · Post by **Anguirel** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 6:57 pm

Serious Paul wrote:Can you short charge the barrel rotation speed to effect slower rotation, and therefore a more silent weapon-no firing involved here-?

My guess is that the system doesn't work unless it's at full speed. Everything is perfectly timed to function at that exact speed, and at no other. Otherwise you could start firing before it was up to speed, just not get as many rounds out. It's like the timing bolts for the machine guns in the WW2 aircraft. You actually fire a split-second before the barrel is ready. Slowing it down means you start having the bullet slam into the barrel-cylinder before it locks into place.

Actually, do the barrels lock into place? I never thought about it before, but the barrels could be curved slightly through the cylinder, allowing the cylinder to continue turning as the bullet flies through. In which case the timing and the spin both need to be dead-on set for the bullet speed of the system will be damaged.

Can you use excessive charge, or power to bring the barrels up to speed quicker?

Can you put more gas into an engine to make your car accelerate faster? Yes, up to a point. Eventually, you'll max out the components, and I'd imagine that they've already done so in the Vindicator.

If you were to replace the drive assembly, you could do either of the above. The latter more easily than the former, and you need to be sure it doesn't over-accelerate and start spinning too fast (again, it's set up for a specific speed: faster and slower are both bad).

How difficult would this be to cybernetically control?

If you created an all new system that used a variable speed motor and variable-timing firing bolt system, which should be easily possible with SR tech, it would require computer control systems (instead of mechanical control systems like the present miniguns) and thus would be exceptionally simple for cybernetic controls to work on it.

Could the Vindicator chamber rounds other than 5.56 MM or 7.62MM (Which is what I assume it chambers.)? In example 9MM?

The entire system comes as a timing whole. Change anything about the system and the entirety fails to function. In theory, though, yes, you could chamber any bullt you wanted in there, but it'd have to fill the space alloted, and the bullets would need to travel at the exact expected speed so they can get through the barrel properly.

What effect do you think shortening or lengthening the barrels would have?

Probably the same as any other gun. Longer barrel makes it harder to hold up, more accurate, and reduces the effects of recoil through sheer mass, and makes it more difficult for aiming. Shorter barrel makes it easier to hold, less accurate, increases the effects of recoil, and makes it easier to manuver for aiming. And if the barrels are, in fact, curved, you better have a nice machining system to put that sucker together. If they are not, then the timing system will be shot all to hell, and there's a definite maximum length before the system won't be able to spin the barrel out fast enough because one bullet is still in while it needs to get the next barrel in place.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:21 pm

Ancient History wrote:If, presumably, you managed to slow the rotation, then the barrel would take /longer/ to get up to speed and it would still probably have an audible electric whine.

Okay that makes some sense. What I am picturing now is as follows:

Weapon is spun up to speed. Weapon is then slowed to muffle its sound profile. Weapon receives burst of "Power" to bring it back to speed, overall time is shorter.

No. 1 round. Take it or leave it.

That seems abritrary to me. I understand why its there, but I am still going to look into this further.

ak404 wrote:To answer your first and second question, no. The bolts needed to, er...fire the bullets are dependent on the speed of the motor used to fire the damned thing.

I agree it needs a certain speed. This is not for firing, but for stealth purposes.

The speed of the motor is perfectly suited to the timing of the bolts. If you slow it down or speed it up, this'll (presumably, since my knowledge of miniguns is slight) fuck up the rhthym of the bolts...or just slow down your rate of fire, but if you're not using a minigun for the sheer amount of bullets it can spit out, why're you using one in the first place?

Heh.

Anguirel wrote:My guess is that the system doesn't work unless it's at full speed. Everything is perfectly timed to function at that exact speed, and at no other. Otherwise you could start firing before it was up to speed, just not get as many rounds out.

Hmmm. That makes sense, but does your answer change with the changed idea I had. As far as stealth goes, not firing.

My guess is that the system doesn't work unless it's at full speed. Everything is perfectly timed to function at that exact speed, and at no other. Otherwise you could start firing before it was up to speed, just not get as many rounds out.

Where is Raygun when we need him?

FlakJacket · Post by **FlakJacket** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 3:14 am

You have to do the special Raygun summoning ritual. Set up a small fire in the centre, draw out the hermetic circles in cordite powder around it and then sprinkle spent cartridges around with your left hand whilst shouting Nugyar- his name backwards- three times and firing a pistol in the air. *Nods sagely*

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 5:35 am

Serious Paul slowly arranges a massive fire in the center of the thread, placing copies of Predator, Commando, and the Rambo in a concentric circle then dosing them with napalm to lite them. Sprinkling shell casing from a variety calibers as he sprinkles concentric geometric rings of summoning Paul steps back and admires his work.

Nugyar! Nugyar! Nugyar!

BHAM!

ak404 · Post by **ak404** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 6:29 am

Paul, out of curiosity, why do you need a stealthed minigun? It's not as though nobody's gonna notice that there's a certain amount of area (which may or may not have once been occupied by live flesh that is now crying for Mommy) that has suddenly gained around a pound in lead.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 7:28 am

Its for insertion. The team has to move to a certain point before they can rock and roll. Once they open up it matters little, but they'd like to be able to get the proper spread to maximize their fields of fire with suppressive fire and maneuver.

Once its starts firing its irrelevant.

Conscience42 · Post by **Conscience42** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 8:35 am

Probably easier to simply leave the gun off until needed. It shouldn't take too long to bring up to speed, and a minigun with non-moving barrels should be easier to carry and move around with. Imagine the sound if you caught the minigun on a corner or something with those moving barrels. Even slowed down it would make a racket.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 8:53 am

Hmmm, so what kind of noise are we talking here. I know highly distinctive is the term always used, but when a Vindicator is not firing, how loud is it?

I don't have to have an exact decibel level, but a compariosn would be nice. Are we talking car horn loud, or plane taking off loud?

Conscience42 · Post by **Conscience42** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 9:42 am

Probably atleast power drill loud. Maybe powersaw. You can probably mask the sound on a crowded and busy street, but inside a quiet building, it will stand out, atleast I would think so.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 9:47 am

For ease of reference Decibel Equivalants.

ak404 · Post by **ak404** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 9:30 pm

Just to give you a general idea, Paul, watch Predator or Terminator 2 sometime. I think it's safe to say that the Vindi should be about as a minigun.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 9:33 pm

Eyes AK.

You think there is a movie Arnold was in I haven't seen? Are you insane!? The difficulty, seriously, becomes meshing real life with the game.

One thing I totally bypassed and was reminded of at DSF, where I mirrored this thread, is magical and mechcanical baffles.

ak404 · Post by **ak404** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:03 pm

Well, watch 'em again.

BTW, I did suggest a silence spell. It's probably the best way to do this. The mechanical solution would be...insane, to say the least.

paladin2019 · Post by **paladin2019** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 4:50 pm

Useless trivia 1: The M134 is chambered for 7.62 NATO. The XM214 is the 5.56 mm version.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 7:59 pm

I think you are all crazy, and underestimate the amount of customization Paul's talking about. He's not just saying, "Could a Vindicator have a motor with a cybernetic rheostat [dimmer] that allows you to slow the motor down," but rather, "Can a minigun be made to spin its barrels in such a way as to not go <i>wheee![/i] the whole time you're walking around with it powered up?"

I gotta go right now, but I'll toss some ideas in the mix when I can, and see how nuts you guys think <i>those</i> are.

ak404 · Post by **ak404** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 8:41 pm

Actually, 32, I don't think so because I've thought about doing this myself and ended up settling for a silence spell.

AFAIK, the electric motor of a minigun has only two settings: on and off. Once you decide to use it, the big whining noise kicks in, not only from the motor itself, but from the rotating barrels, the mechanism that makes it work, the belt feed, and the air-cooling system of the gun, not to mention the sound of the bullets being chambered, primed, and fired.

I think I know what Paul's thinking: is there a way to keep the barrels rotating in an 'idle' mode, running it at maybe one-tenth the speed during non-combat situations, using something akin to a step-up system where the electric motor goes from 'idle' to full speed? Well, that really doesn't make much sense to me, since it'd qualify as a waste of energy (batteries'll geek out faster when it's time to rock & roll), it generates heat when it's not needed (thermo bait), the gun still needs time to get the barrels up to speed, and even if the electric motor could be pulled down in decibels to a low purr, the barrels and their rotating mechanism would still make a ton of clanking noises (unless you dikoted the mechanism).

OverLord · Post by **OverLord** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:51 pm

Y'know, I could always blow the dust off my briefcase and just put a gun together for you, Paul.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:59 pm

Before I come back to this - still thinking! - I have what might be a funny question: why does a minigun need a motor at all?

ak404 · Post by **ak404** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 10:13 pm

The rate of fire on a mini-gun is far higher than your usual gas or recoil-operated blowback system. In addition, something needs to spin the barrels. You could hand crank it like the original gatling guns, but that's not very effective.

If you have Ian V. Hogg's Military Small Arms of the 20th Century (7th Ed.), you'll find more info on this on page 11 ("Externally Powered Systems"). I'm in a bit of a rush.

Kai · Post by **Kai** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 4:55 pm

Think of it like a ceiling fan, Paul, you might be able to have variable speeds, but that motor is going no matter what, and the parts are still moving. That's the distinctive noise, because while it might be louder at higher speeds, on is still on.

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:19 pm

If all of this is about bein' sneaky-like and having a nice gun to double-tap some chump on your way to rocking and rolling, why not just carry a nice cut down sport rifle with a good silencer/suppressor. I mean, whoever has the mini obviously has the muscles to handle a spare gun or two.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 7:20 pm

Kai: That seems to make sense, the question is how much noise.

Caz: Basically the guy carrying this is the team's heavy back up-they're (The rest of the team) all carrying silenced weapons, but as they are facing opposition armed with fully automatic weapons, grenade launchers and possibly some serious magic on their side, the team needed some sort of equalizer.

Admitedly the guy could have choose a different weapon, but in this case the weapon suits his unique build and style.

Kai · Post by **Kai** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 7:34 pm

Hrm, trying to think of a good example for that electric motor sound...

I guess the best I can come up with is a quiet bench saw spinning up and a slightly out of whack ceiling fan. That momentary pause followed by a start up and high pitched whine that's enough to be iritable and auidable, but not super loud. At least that's always how I imagined it, loud enough to be heard so long as its moderetely noisy or less, very distinctive, and fairly high pitched.

Eliahad · Post by **Eliahad** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:12 pm

Like a computer fan?

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:43 pm

Serious Paul wrote:Its for insertion. The team has to move to a certain point before they can rock and roll. Once they open up it matters little, but they'd like to be able to get the proper spread to maximize their fields of fire with suppressive fire and maneuver.

Once its starts firing its irrelevant.

Serious Paul wrote:Caz: Basically the guy carrying this is the team's heavy back up-they're (The rest of the team) all carrying silenced weapons, but as they are facing opposition armed with fully automatic weapons, grenade launchers and possibly some serious magic on their side, the team needed some sort of equalizer.

I'm confused, are you looking for a quiet equalizer? It seems that way - I must just be taking more than my usual allotment of stupid pills. At least in my mind, the first portion of equality is all about stealth skills (i.e. if you have to shoot anybody you've fucked up) and the second depends on the minigun's rate of fire. The guy should not be calling on that thing until he's in position.

Kai · Post by **Kai** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:53 pm

Eli: Actually yeah, a nice cpu fan makes that kind of noise when its not locked onto a processor. Think that sort of noise only a bit louder due to it being a bit bigger motor.

Raygun · Post by **Raygun** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:38 am

Between here and Dumpshock, I'm sure all of these questions have been answered, but I'm going to answer them anyway because I'm bored. Here goes.

Serious Paul wrote:Okay some questions about the General Electric Vindicator minigun.

Can you short charge the barrel rotation speed to effect slower rotation, and therefore a more silent weapon-no firing involved here-?

Yes, you can lower the barrel rotation speed to lower the rate of fire. That in itself wouldn't really create less noise, just a slower rate of fire per unit time.

[*]Can you use excessive charge, or power to bring the barrels up to speed quicker?

No. The Vindicator, like all modern miniguns is driven by an electric motor. The ammunition itself has absolutely no effect whatsoever of barrel rotation speed or rate of fire. As a matter of fact, you don't even have to feed cartridges into the weapon to rotate the barrels. The feed mechanism and the barrel set motor are completely independent of each other. Cartridges are fed into the bottom of the weapon, but aren't fired until the barrel reaches the top of its rotation.

[*] How difficult would this be to cybernetically control?

Easier than most small arms, as it is electrically driven.

[*]Could the Vindicator chamber rounds other than 5.56 MM or 7.62MM (Which is what I assume it chambers.)? In example 9MM?

Probably not a very cost-effective thing to do, as you'd have to replace the entire barrel assembly and bolts, among other things. The action length is way too long to reliably feed both short-cased pistol cartridges and rifle cartridges. In short, no. However, if the expense of changing the barrel unit was financially manageable (I'm sure that represents a good chunk of the weapon cost), using a cartridge of similar length shouldn't be too much of a problem (for example, going from 5.56x45mm to 6.8x42mm, or from 7.62x51mm to .243 Win, .260 Rem, or 7mm-08).

[*] What effect do you think shortening or lengthening the barrels would have?[/list]

Nothing good. It would lower muzzle velocity and increase noise. It would make the gun a little shorter, but that really doesn't matter much.

In short, there's really no reason to do this financially, mechanically, and tactically speaking. Making a minigun quiter is just an enormous waste of money. Hire another guy, get a couple of conventional machine guns and suppress them if you need that kind of volume of fire and steathyness.

ak404 · Post by **ak404** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 4:46 am

Dammit, I keep on forgetting that the motor is completely independent of the belt feed.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 8:45 am

Sigh

I seem to be unable to explain this properly. A lot of people whom I highly respect, and think are really intelligent have missed my intent here.

I do not want to change the weapons rate of fire.

In fact I am not intrested in firing at all. The idea is as follows, and hopefully this makes better sense:

Player A is sneaking into a building as part of a team that expects trouble. His weapon of choice is the GE Vindicator. In order to use this weapon he must spend a round bringing it up to firing speed-which is a noisy process, and time consuming. What this player would like to do is have the barrels spinning at a lower speed while he infiltrates the building so that when it comes time to fire he can cut down the time needed to fire his weapon, but the weapon is also "at the ready".(He isn't just walking in with an inert piece of steel.) AT NO POINT DURING THIS INFILTRATION DOES HE WANT TO FIRE. When he does fire, the weapons noise is irrelevant, as is its ROF (I am fine with the rules as is for when he fires. Its prefiring I am intrested in.) Its getting into position, and being ready he wants to be concerned about.

Does that make more sense?

Caz wrote:The guy should not be calling on that thing until he's in position.

EXACTLY. But if he could have the barrels slowly rotating, and quietly then he'd be a step ahead.

Raygun wrote:The ammunition itself has absolutely no effect whatsoever of barrel rotation speed or rate of fire.

I'm sorry, I meant battery charge, electrical charge. Instead of say a nine volt battery (Obviously not the correct voltage here, just using an example) he uses two or three?

This is only to get the barrels spinning, not the actual firing process.

Kai · Post by **Kai** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:49 am

See responses of motor always on. I know you don't care about rate of fire, its the fact that the motor is only going to have to settings, on and off. Its the motor that makes that whine noise the sound you're concerned about until you start to fire, and I really don't think they're a way to make the motor quieter. Besides which I'm not thinking there's a way to make spin up time less than a round anyways just due to game mechanics.

Notes to find Paul a copy of Twilight 2000 :7

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 2:22 pm

Now I get it, I must have misread someone else's post.

What about installing some kind of clutch assembly between the motors and the barrels? You'd be able to bring them up to speed, disengage the motor, and leave them spinning on momentum for at least a little while. Then you could bring the engine up to power, engage it, and rock and roll. It's imperfect, but not out of this world.

Anguirel · Post by **Anguirel** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 6:12 pm

Cazmonster wrote:What about installing some kind of clutch assembly between the motors and the barrels? You'd be able to bring them up to speed, disengage the motor, and leave them spinning on momentum for at least a little while. Then you could bring the engine up to power, engage it, and rock and roll. It's imperfect, but not out of this world.

Turn it into a fly-wheel, more or less. Yeah, I don't see why this would be impossible. I'd imagine under normal conditions the motor reverses in order to: a) brake the barrels; and b) recharge the battery a little... but there's no reason you couldn't just have the barrels spin freely for a while without the motor engaged. If you had a thin covering over the barrels (perhaps force-cooled as well, to add a little more of a heat-sink, or at least prevent it from not allowing heat to escape?) you won't even need to worry about them grinding against something accidentally.

sinsual · Post by **sinsual** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 7:38 pm

Ever stand next to a hotrod with a supercharger...not a turbo...but a BIG ASS HONKING BLOWER...hear that whine? thats the drive making that noise. Its the sound of the gears meshing, the air slipping between the belt and pulleys. The motor isn't directly spinning the barrels. That would be a waste of power. Instead it will be gear driven and a big part of the whine that you will hear is the gear drive itself. In the electric motor its the sound of the air being pushed past the brushes and wireing. In a CPU fan its more the sound of the blades through the air then the motor itself though there is the same sound for the motor added to it.

Your flywheel method has merit but will add conciderable weight to the equation. A light flywheel loses momentum quickly where as a heavy flywheel loses it slowly. But it will take more power to spin that heavier flywheel up.

Yes you can overcharge the motor by adding more power to spin it up faster. The downside, now you are carrying two or three times the normal powerpacks just to jump start it. It takes more wattage to get an electric motor started then it does to keep it turning. Look here for power needs for small electric motors this will give you an idea of the power pull it takes to get that electricmotor to spin up the barrels. Look at the industrial motors. That will give you an idea of what your talking about for initial draw to start that motorturning, now since you want to over charge the motor that standard draw is going to go up.

Ikarus7 · Post by **Ikarus7** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:33 pm

I think it would be possible to just take out the electric motor and put another one, maybe bigger, but also more silent one. I would surely be bigger but it could be made made more silent.

Nothing stipulate that a firearm expert can't replace the motor by another one, the only thing that can't really change easily I think is the speed of the motor for the rate of fire. So as long as the speed is the same, you can put whatever motor you want, like a silent one.

In game term I think someone with a pretty good firearm build and repair skill and a gunsmith facilty could do it if he had enough time.

And for speeding up the barrel faster, why couldn't it be made? A stronger motor could speed up the barrel faster, its only a question of cost, size (because a strong and silent motor would probably be big as hell) and game time to realize the project.

But like someone said, why don't you just pay a mage to quicken a silence spell on your minigun?

ak404 · Post by **ak404** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 1:24 am

Actually, messing with the electric motor of a minigun would require the Electronics B/R skill and shop, not the Firearms B/R skill and shop.

FlakJacket · Post by **FlakJacket** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 1:51 am

Crap. This reminds me of reading about a type of mini/gattling gun that someone had which fired .22 caliber bullets. Even with just that, it cost something like a hundred bucks in bullets a burst.

I'll try and remember were it was.

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 1:58 am

FlakJacket wrote:Crap. This reminds me of reading about a type of mini/gattling gun that someone had which fired .22 caliber bullets. Even with just that, it cost something like a hundred bucks in bullets a burst. I'll try and remember were it was.

Pondsmith and crew had one in one of the Chromebooks. It was tasty and looked a great deal like a Calico grew five extra barrels.

Raygun · Post by **Raygun** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 6:57 am

Serious Paul wrote:Player A is sneaking into a building as part of a team that expects trouble. His weapon of choice is the GE Vindicator. In order to use this weapon he must spend a round bringing it up to firing speed-which is a noisy process, and time consuming. What this player would like to do is have the barrels spinning at a lower speed while he infiltrates the building so that when it comes time to fire he can cut down the time needed to fire his weapon, but the weapon is also "at the ready".

I understand what you're trying to do. Barrels spining idle, no firing (like in Predator after JV get whacked and whats-his-face picks up the minigun and starts laying waste to the jungle. He runs out of ammo and the barrels are left whizzing away. You want this, only in reverse).

Realistically speaking, there is no point. The rules that require an action to bring the barrels "up to speed" are rediculous. If you were to begin feeding and rotating barrels at the same time, the minigun would begin firing within a fraction of a second (as long as it takes for barrel 1 to rotate from the bottom "load" position to the top "fire" position). The weapon would begin firing immediately, at a slower ROF, then come "up to speed" while in the process of firing.

If you've ever heard a real minigun being fired, you can hear this as a very sudden increase in pitch at the beginning of the firing cycle, for the first, oh, twenty or so rounds, which are all fired in less than half a second. It sounds similar to a chainsaw going from idle to full throttle, only there is no idle with a minigun.

Now, if you're trying to figure out a way to sidestep the rule, I think the best way to do that is to ignore it completely.

ak404 · Post by **ak404** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 7:24 am

Sidestepping the rule works for me. I mean, shit, HVARs don't get the delay, and their ROFs are far higher than the Vindicator's.

Of course, HVARs are total bullshit, but that's beside the point...

CykoSpin · Post by **CykoSpin** » Sat May 01, 2004 4:16 am

ak404 wrote:... 6,000 rounds a minute (or 15 rounds a combat turn, in SR terms).

Which makes absolutely no fucking sense whatsoever.

Your typical SMG or assault rifle firing at, say, 600 rounds per minute can fire 10 rounds per action, yet the 6,000 rpm minigun only gets 15 shots? I've always thought that was the stupidest SR rule ever.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Sat May 01, 2004 5:55 am

Raygun wrote:The rules that require an action to bring the barrels "up to speed" are rediculous.

That's more or less exactly what I wanted to hear. Sure, the low-speed-idle minigun would be cute, but if the rule is stupid, the rule is stupid.

Raygun wrote:Now, if you're trying to figure out a way to sidestep the rule, I think the best way to do that is to ignore it completely.

The good news is, this isn't even for a game: this is for Shadowrun fiction, so stupid rules will gleefully get ignored. Realism before bad game mechanics, I always say.

[Shadowrun]General Electric Vindicator Minigun.

[Shadowrun]General Electric Vindicator Minigun.

Re: [Shadowrun]General Electric Vindicator Minigun.

Question #1 and Question #2

Re: [Shadowrun]General Electric Vindicator Minigun.