[SR] Attribute Maximum

Kai · Post by **Kai** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:37 pm

Amazing the amount of things you run into when teaching people to play the game that you only thought you knew...

Racial Modifed Limit, 6's for humans. You can spend karma and buy stuff and use magic to get up to this point. Attribute Maximum. Karma costs 3x level to raise above racial modified until attribute maximum. Physad abilities, spells, can go up to Attibute max, I'm sure cyber or bioware can.

Does anything allow you to go over your Attribute Maximum? Physad Increased Attribute? Cyberware? Bioware? Or is Attribute Max the very absolute cap?

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:41 pm

It was always my understanding that cyber/bioware and physad powers/magic could allow you to exceed the attribute maximum, but I'd have to check the rules again.

That is, if your human has, through much karma and a few steroids, gotten a Strength of 9, then muscle augmentation allows the human to exceed that. As I understand it.

FlakJacket · Post by **FlakJacket** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:43 pm

For bioware, since it's copnsidered natural I'm fairly sure it can't raise attirbutes above the nine maximum. Cyber on the other hand can IIRC. I'll have to check to rules to make sure though.

TheScamp · Post by **TheScamp** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 5:01 pm

According to the official FAQ, Bioware cannot exceed the Racial Max. Cyber, on the other hand, can.

Anguirel · Post by **Anguirel** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 5:15 pm

I generally rule one way or the other at CharGen, usually based on how much power I want to allow. There are definitely arguments both ways -- the Attribute Max I usually make a hard-cap without specific cyberware enhancements. That is, you can't possibly exceed it in a permanent fashion (short bursts are ok). The reasoning is fairly simple: your muscles may be able to put forth the power, but your joints can't handle the strain. You'll literally injure yourself trying too hard. This is especially true for people who, for example, have cyber arms, but not a cyber torso. You end up with that lovely Ghost-In-The-Shell type of thing with the character ripping their own arms off (or crushing their own torso) because the material is weaker than the force that can be applied by the muscles.

In terms of Mental Stats, your (real) brain can't handle the additional capacity and you begin to develop psychoses. Which is actually fairly accurate. Intelligence and several mental disorders are fairly closely linked. Which is clearly visible on this board.

If I want a higher-powered game, you can get to Racial-Modified Limit at Chargen with points, then through excessive Karma expenditure and time spent training you can get your attributes up to the Attribute Max. Cyber, Bio and Magic can exceed that maximum because the implantation process or the magic strengthens the required regions, preventing the above from happening.

Kai · Post by **Kai** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 5:40 pm

Oh I'm aware I can do what I like, but for the life of me I could find nowhere where it was stated if anything could exceed attribute maximum. We always played that the only way to go over attribute max was physad Increased Attribute and cyberware, but damned if I can figure out if that was just an accepted house rule or actual canon, so rules references are appreciated

Anguirel · Post by **Anguirel** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:23 pm

Internal to the Core book (SR3), I thnk the only references are in the Karma-spending section (page 244/245). The Limit and the Max apply to what can be acheived via Karma alone. "We don't recommend having 'super characters' whose standard Attribute ratings are their Attribute maximum..." (emphasis mine) -- this seems to say to me that the Attribute Max applies only to karma-purchased increases. "Standard" or "Natural" Attribute ratings are not the same as "Augmented" or "Cyber" ratings.

As noted, the FAQ mentions this as well. Cyber can go beyond the Attribute Max, but Bioware, being "natural" cannot. Magic can go beyond the limits as well (second question in red, right now -- even if the question wording mixes Racial Modified Limit and Attribute Maximum).