[SR3] Gold

FlakJacket · Post by **FlakJacket** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:21 am

Slightly irregular question, but I don't suppose the price of gold in the 2050/60's has ever come up has it? I can't remeber it ever having, and it's probably pretty unlikely. Been reading up on the London gold markets and it brought up the idea of people being paid for doing things in something other than certified cred or finished products. Probably just a case of convert current day dollars to nuyen job.

And on the off-chance that anyone round here knows anything about gold and its trading, would it be relatively similar in price to today or might things have happened that;d affect the price e.g. the rource rush?

Now if you'll excuse me, I feel the need to put some Shirley Bassey on.

ak404 · Post by **ak404** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 5:43 am

I suppose dragons, with their hoards of gold (I believe Lofwyr bought most of SK with a massive chunk of gold) would have caused the market on that particular element to lose market value as they converted their gold into nuyen (though one can never be sure with dragons).

If there was a gold standard in SR (wouldn't doubt it), the dragons and elves would've fucked it all up with their personal fortunes. Just a thought.

And then there're free spirits and spirits with the create wealth power. Almost forgot about those.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:21 am

ak404 wrote:I suppose dragons, with their hoards of gold (I believe Lofwyr bought most of SK with a massive chunk of gold) would have caused the market on that particular element to lose market value as they converted their gold into nuyen (though one can never be sure with dragons).

I just finally got Dragons of the Sixth World, and I am reading it, but the impression I have so far is that those hoards are far smaller than legends made them out to be, and more of the hoard is actually sticks, bonds and etc than we might think.

Its also pretty strongly hinted that they(Dragons) are much more active in the down cycle than we migth have thought at first.

So I am betting less of the plopping a chunk of gold down on the table happened (It still happened I bet, nothing is more impressive than a sock drawer chunk of gold the size of a volvo...) and more Dragons started buying stocks, futures, bonds etc...earlier.

If there was a gold standard in SR (wouldn't doubt it), the dragons and elves would've fucked it all up with their personal fortunes. Just a thought.

I agree witht his for a different reason. I think the perception that they may have this secret stash would affect the standard more than what they really had.

sinsual · Post by **sinsual** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:57 am

Since gold is also a natural element isn't it used ALOT for arcane things? Or am I getting my games mixed up when thinking one of the makings of orichalcum isn't used in SR...

3278 · Post by **3278** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:22 am

The elves wouldn't have effected the gold standard at all, since they were here the whole time. The personal fortunes of dragons, while conceivably extensive, would be limited to what they could hide somewhere underground for 10,000 years. And while these investors are highly visible, we're still only talking about a handful of greats who survived the downcycle hunting. The hoards of those who did not would already be either in circulation or practically inaccessible, depending on where dragons truly spend the downtime.

Demand for gold would skyrocket after the Awakening. How many different types of foci depend on orichalcum? How many people need gold for virgin talesma? Of course, I myself am forgetting about the relative rarity of magic users. Anyway, more people need gold for more things. Whether this could possibly balance out the overflow of wealth from spirits using the Wealth power, I don't know. It isn't often talked about, but the Wealth power is potentially the most economically-destabilizing ramification of Shadowrun canon.

Another thing that isn't often discussed in Shadowrun is the economic effects of having half the world die. In Europe, after the worst of the plague had passed, real personal wealth had increased by 50 percent, simply because those who lived had inherited - through will or Will - those things belonging to those who had died.

Excellent topic, Flak. My only recommendation for canon discussion of the gold standard would be the old sourcebook Corporate Shadowfiles, which details a wealth of information on investments and monetary systems in Shadowrun. [The sort of thing SR3 writers don't think is important enough to talk about.] A kind word to Paul - who is now in possession of The Library<font size=1>TM</font> - would probably yield considerable results, if any are to be had at all.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:44 am

I would also foresee an increase in demand for gold resulting from the need for payment in hard currency to shadow organizations of various stripes and revolutionaries, and a decrease in gold's significance as a standard on which monetary systems are based.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:26 pm

The only price of gold given is for the unrefined stuff used in magical operations.

FlakJacket · Post by **FlakJacket** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:05 pm

Oh yeah. But that's the virgin, hand-collected unrefined stuff IIRC since it has to be done naturally without machines or chemicals. So of course it's going to be more expensive since it's a lot harder to harvest. I doubt it would really affect the markets since it's such a small, specialised need.

ak404 · Post by **ak404** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 4:52 am

OK, that gold on the magical market, which means that the gold FJ refers to is hard-as-fuck to find: how many gold mines can there possibly be left?

What about gold as superconductive material (I think it's used as superconductive material...I think)?

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 4:58 am

While an excellent conductor, gold does not show any superconductive properties at any temperature.

ak404 · Post by **ak404** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 10:30 am

Ah, good. I'm a moron.

If megacorporations have sovereignty, one has to wonder how this gold gets around. I'm thinking the Big Ten all have their own gold reserve, but wouldn't that be somewhat counterproductive?

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:57 pm

Nowadays, the gold nations and banks use to back currency (as opposed to little ingots people buy in case the world goes to Hell) are stored in a few very secure vaults. The US government has printed a special series of gold bonds (think 100,000 dollar bills) to facilitate transactions between their gold storage facilities without actually moving the gold (note: it is illegal for private citizens to own one of these).

Megacorps would have only two reasons for having a cache of gold bullion:

1) Backing a Currency: Gold and silver can be used by a bank to provide the financial backing for any given currency; either national, specific to that bank, or corporate scrip. This means you can literally walk into the bank that printed the currency and exchange your bills for X amount of gold.

2) Just in Case: Another form of currency, in the event it becomes necessary to deal in such tangibles.

Since most megacorps have banks somewhere in their chain, and all have corporate scrip (which may not be attached to a gold standard), I think it likely they all have some gold deposit somewhere.

DV8 · Post by **DV8** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:11 pm

Ancient History wrote:Since most megacorps have banks somewhere in their chain, and all have corporate scrip (which may not be attached to a gold standard), I think it likely they all have some gold deposit somewhere.

In the jungles of Malaysia!

FlakJacket · Post by **FlakJacket** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:09 pm

You mean the jungles of the Philippines, surely?

DV8 · Post by **DV8** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:34 am

I'm a dumbass. Yes, I did.

Toryu · Post by **Toryu** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 4:51 pm

Umm, guys? The Gold Standard hasn't been used in more than 50 years. Totally a thing of the past, especially if one considers the total dominance of the nuyen. Even during the days of the Gold Standard (1870-1914), gold was never able to fully back the money supply...mainly because there isn't all that much of it. Since the collapse of Bretton Woods in 1973, exchange rates are flexible.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:56 am

Intresting, that makes me want to read more. Thanks for the post.

FlakJacket · Post by **FlakJacket** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:32 am

I don't think anyone was really talking about the gold standard per se. It was more a case of using it as an alternative to certified cred and that a lot of central banks still have chunks of their reserves invested in gold since it's a universally accepted valuable commodity and the price doesn't vary greatly over short/mid-term periods. The price of gold is freefloating but it's also 'fixed' twice a day on the London markets at Rothschild's. This is more for administrative purposes to help with the paperwork though since the moment it's 'fixed' the the price will have changed again

FlakJacket · Post by **FlakJacket** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:59 am

DV8 wrote:I'm a dumbass. Yes, I did.

Although, with their having owned the place for a while and being gradually forced out by the Huk, it does have a certain symmetry. Might be an idea for a run. Details of an old WW2 gold stash that's been turned up. A possible three-way dash between the Huk, Japanacorps that want to get it before they're forced out/unable to, and freelance players.