[DnD]Character concepts

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:40 pm

Put your own!

Mystic/Sorceror
Sorceror Supreme, Master of the Mystic Arts
The Mystic is the divine equivalent of the sorceror, and recently appeared in the Dragonlance campaign book. Except you don't have to suck up to any Gods. It's the best way to get divine spells without being an Ur-priest. So, what can you do with two instictive spell classes?

While it would be fun to start out as apprentic-level in each, you're best best is to alternate levels. As soon as you hit 3rd-level Mystic/3rd-level Sorceror, you can jump into the Mystic Theurge prestige class! By the time you're 16th level you can cast spells as a 13th level Mystic and 13th level Sorceror; kicking ass and healing up.

Depending on your Domain, you could become a True Necromancer (for a truly kick-ass 27+ caster level on Necromancy spells) or a Geomancer. Favored feats include the Southern Magician regional feat from "Races of Faerun" (humans only!)

Monk/Spellfire Channeler
Flame on!
Okay, you just picked up the "Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting" and "Magic of Faerun." You want to be a kick-ass spellfire-slinger. Unfortunately, you class options are limited. A spellcaster will let you pick up the requirements easily, but they're all weak. Barbarians, fighters, paladins, rangers...Jesus, you'll die before you meet the requirements! Nope, go with the monk. Four levels and you should have the minimums for the Spellfire Channeler class. Max it out at 10th level, pick up some Fighter levels for Weapon specialization or maybe some improvements on Deflect Arrows. Then hop over to the WotC website and pick up the Spellfire Heirophant class for some Epic action.

A monk has the class skills to get you in to the Spellfire Channeler class early, some great bonus feats and extraordinary abilities, and good enough saves, attack bonus and hit points that you won't get killed early on. Plus, once you do hit special abilities like Crown of Fire, you can wade into melee and pummel enemies with blazing fists while shrugging off damage.

Naturally, Constitution is the big attribute for spellfire wielders, but Wisdom and Dexterity are close seconds.

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:33 pm

Whatever happened to "picking the class(es) that seem best suited to the character"?

3278 · Post by **3278** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:47 pm

Yeah, I was going to say something about the fact that these aren't character concepts so much as plans to exploit the numerics of the system. I think it's significant to point out that AnHi's never done that for Earthdawn or Shadowrun; sounds to me from this and other nearby threads like there's something about the system that just lends itself to the dimunition of characterization.

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:00 pm

I think you're right, 32, and I think it's largely because not only is it class-based, but the "worthwhile" character abilities are all tied to your specific classes. (That's true of Earthdawn, too, but they strongly discouraged multi-disciplining.)

In Shadowrun, as your character develops you can pick and choose whatever skills become appropriate for them. In D&D, you have to spend a whole level on it if you want to 'branch out'. For instance, I'm currently playing a cleric/wizard who's been doing a lot of melee combat lately - she tends to reach for her sword before her scrolls. If it were Shadowrun, I could put a few points into combat skills and be done with it - I'd be developing the character accurately to reflect her behaviour, without veering too much from the core concept.

In D&D, though, I'd have to spend a whole level on getting a fighter level - that's much more of a 'sacrifice' from the core character concept, and furthermore it'd screw me by way of experience (since it'd cost me a 10% XP penalty unless I kept it level with the cleric levels).

Ultimately, D&D just doesn't suit the development of well-rounded characters, if you want their in-game abilities to match their predilections and attitudes. It does tend to promote shallow, two-dimensional characterization, simply because there's not enough flexibility to round out everything your character should be able to do.

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:41 pm

That has been one of the most difficult things about D&D since the word go. The game spends most of its time deep in a dungeon, where the primary four classes can do their thing in good and shiny ways.

Once you step out of the 10x10 hallways and 30x30 rooms and into a real world, the game begins to weaken. You can't build a good fighter who works as an imposing leader, he's got only half the influence, at best that a bard does. And the second you start taking bard levels, you can kiss of being able to dust it up the way a pure fighter can.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:56 pm

In DnD (insert version), the New and Shiny rule applies. Damn few people will actually stick to a single, core class-especially since Prestige Classes are available specifically to allow you to specialize your character. Therefore, I like to pick a class concept (example, Mystic/Sorceror, the innate magician supreme), and then I frame my character around the bones.

It's like having a Psion whose psicrystal is a little rounded emerald on his/her forehead a la Adam Warlock.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:09 am

The thing is, in the system, that's a good way to do it. See what's /possible,/ and then make a character around it. Every time I've tried to make a D&D character - from D&D Box Set to 3.5 - I've been hamstrung by the inability of the system to accomodate my character ideas. Because it's so strongly class- and race- limited, many concepts are impossible under the system. That's why I like Shadowrun; one of the many reasons, anyway.

Kai · Post by **Kai** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:13 am

Its a common fault of class based systems to restrict characters into a well defined hole and god help you if you want to get out of it and still keep up with the rest of the group. I think my players for BESM d20 are starting to see just how nice it is to have options on what kind of 'insert class here' you want to be.

ak404 · Post by **ak404** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 2:08 am

I'm beginning to see 32's point, and I'm not even touching the PnP version of D&D3E, but NWN instead. Dual-wielding dex-based kukri specialist fighter with rogue feats, who'll eventually become a Shadowdancer? Only with a shitload of effort, but still...

Ghotty · Post by **Ghotty** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:47 pm

Sigma de Lacroix: Knightly descendent, who took to the arcane arts. Str 14, bastard sword prof. Straight wizard untill 7th level, then fighter 8th, wizard 9th, fighter 10th, wizard 11, fighter 12th, Fighter 13th and then wizard the rest of the way. He's dead now(damn displacer beasts)

Sigard Svenson: Straight wizard, untill 6th level, and I take the "master of bones" or whatever. that damn undead like class for wizards. He was a follower of Vecna who worked for Devils.

Hughburt: A halfling rogue, he latter dual-classed into fighter. He's an expert knife fighter, and a former bandit.

But then again, I like fighters.

The problem is, you have to either multiclass and suck it up, or focus. And when the game is power-played, multi-classing blows.

Anguirel · Post by **Anguirel** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 1:33 pm

The only way to manage "rounding out" is through blended prestige classes. In this PrC, you get a spell level, but no other wizard abilities, but you gain BAB faster. Normally I end up creating a core concept and then finding the Prestige Classes that most closely match what I want to do, then asking for small variations on the class. The addition of the Forgotten Realms feat "Cosmopolitan" helps immensely in allowing one to create a skill set appropriate. For example, it would allow Caz's imposing leader Fighter to permanently have Diplomacy as a class-skill. Sure, you need to blow a feat on it, but if it fits the character concept, who cares?

Incidentally, the Wizard Necromancer undead-like class is Pale Master. And when you finish it and can make a giant army of the undead that doesn't count against your usual undead limits, it rules.

Ghotty · Post by **Ghotty** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:21 pm

Ah, yes, pale master. Of course, I didn't die. I turned to stone. Damned cockatrice.

ak404 · Post by **ak404** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:07 am

You mean to tell me that the Pale Master is an actual PnP class, not some newly-developed thing for NWN? Yikes!

If you can, can you you give me the skinny on the Champion of Torm? That appeared on NWN as well, and I was wondering what the requirements were for the PnP game...if it even exists.

Anguirel · Post by **Anguirel** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 5:59 pm

ak404 wrote:You mean to tell me that the Pale Master is an actual PnP class, not some newly-developed thing for NWN? Yikes!

Yeah, I played one for an evil high-level campaign. I was also a Red Wizard of Thay. I had a Vampire Knight of Thay (or whatever the Thayan Protector PrC is called). I could kill with a touch attack four times a day -- and the one killed rose as a skeleton or a zombie which didn't count against my usual limits for controlled undead. I was immune to critical hits. It totally rocked. So -- yeah, it's a real class, from Tome & Blood. It's rare you'll find a game where anyone except the GM will use it, seeing as you'd essentially need to be pure evil to get into it.

Ghotty · Post by **Ghotty** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 6:11 pm

Well, I have a tendency for evil characters. Now, however, I'm Lawful Good!

Reika · Post by **Reika** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:17 am

I've never really had a problem fitting what I had in mind into 3e/3.5, hell even when it was AD&D 2nd edition I was always able to fit what I had in mind into the setting. My problem isn't fitting things into the system, it's the whole being able to settle down with a char concept that makes me happy, since I'm weird and my brain can come up with all sorts of tangets on a char. So what I would start off with isn't necessarily the same char that is the finished product, unless it's a char that rears up from my backbrain and starts rattling around in my brain.

Cash · Post by **Cash** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:48 am

Anguirel wrote:
ak404 wrote:You mean to tell me that the Pale Master is an actual PnP class, not some newly-developed thing for NWN? Yikes!
Yeah, I played one for an evil high-level campaign. I was also a Red Wizard of Thay. I had a Vampire Knight of Thay (or whatever the Thayan Protector PrC is called).

Thayan Knight

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 5:24 am

I'd say a number of the Dragon and Dungeon magazine classes are broken, but lots keep popping up in the core books these days.

My favorite of these is the Eldritch Master. An add on for anybody that can cast spells as a sorceror. While ideal as a mid-level prestige class (because it lets Sorcerors and the like have more spells known per level, up to 5th level spells), the spell boost and Master Name abilities really kick-ass for epic level characters.

Once (only once) I needed an NPC evil clone of a Chosen of Mystra (one of the PCs had wangled that); so I gave her some a fair number of sorceror levels, Spellfire Wielder and the Eldritch Master class; topped off with Archmage (Mastery of Counterspelling + Reactive Counterspelling + Spellfire = one Hell of a surprise for a Chosen of Mystra trying to use Silver Fire).

ak404 · Post by **ak404** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 5:37 am

OK, but what about this Champion of Torm thingie?

Also, it kinda disappoints me that assassins have to be evil. Couldn't you have a CN assassin, damn it?

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 5:42 am

Nay. Either Good (Book of Exalted Deeds) or Evil (two flavors: magical in the DMG and psionic on ze Veb Syte).

Champion of Torm sounds familiar, but I can't place it. Possibly one of the specialty clerics in the Forgotten Realms religions SB...Powers and Pantheons I believe it to be called.

ak404 · Post by **ak404** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:44 am

Found it, AH. The Champion of Torm is an offshoot of the Divine Champion prestige class.

I also had a chance to finally look through the epic handbook as well. Holy shit.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:15 pm

Ah ha.

By the way, I've currently gone nuts for a new prestige class: the mind mage, Dragon #313 or something like that. Combines psionics and magic.

Besides the obvious combination (psion/ arcane spellcaster), imagine a mystic theurge/mind mage!

At 26th level (2nd level Mystic, 2nd Level Sorceror, 2nd Level Psion, 10th Level Mystic Theurge, 10th level Mind Mage), you'd essentially have the spellcastign abilities of a 20th level Sorceror, 12th level Mystic and 10th level Psion! Of course, by this point you're well into your epic levels, but easy possibilities from here branch into either psionic or magical. A level of archmage and archpsion each would help on the elemental effects of various powers, while the metamind would give much-needed Power Points to fuel amplified spells. Alternately, taking a foray into the Geomancer class would help eliminate spell failure mishap for armor and the like, while improving either mystical or sorcerous spellcasting.

ak404 · Post by **ak404** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 4:53 am

*shrug* I'm a combat monkey in d20, so I just pick whatever kicks ass.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 5:00 am

Aha! master Name magic! Take the True Name feat, then make a pact with a good-aligned outsider to pick up Words of Creation and the Eldritch Master class as the same time! With the Eldritch Master class, if anybody learns and speaks your True Name, you know about it! Better yet, you can bea Nezumi from Oriental Adventurers and really master Name magic.