[Shadowrun] OOC: Old Dogs of War Redux

[Jeff Hauze]

Since it seems to be old home week around here, I figure might as well go for broke. I've always wanetd to finish this. After re-reading the very little bit of it we do have left, I'd also love to not make it suck so bad on my part as GM. Ideally, between four and eight players. The set up will change a bit this time around, but the core concept stays the same. I'm looking for the older runners, the ones who never made it big. It's one last ride for glory. Though this time, I don't believe we'll be going for quite so over the top on rewards. (Though I have to admit, Thorn's Winnebago request sill lives as one of my top moments in gaming.) The first kernel of the idea has me looking towards System Failure and a few specific events in there.

Points and such aren't decided yet, but we'll be using SR4 rules (as much as they are necessary in a PB3 environment). Anything that hasn't been released for SR4 rules yet (some of the cyber and bio for example), we'll do our best to hack it together. So, any takers?

[Reika]

If you're willing to deal with my potential jinx on SR games, I'd like to give it a stab.

[Jeff Hauze]

Heh. Looks like my own gaming jinx is carrying over here.

[Reika]

That or the thought of gaming with me scared everyone else off.

[Ampere]

That or the thought of gaming with me scared everyone else off.

Oh...YOU'RE playing...oh nevermind then.



Whatever.

[DV8]

I would like to join.

[Jeff Hauze]

Well, we've got two then...or is that three? Amp, are you actually in or just giving Reika shit?

[Serious Paul]

I am provisionally interested.

[Jeff Hauze]

So we'll make that two definites, and two possibles. I'll try and get a few more of thoughts posted up tonight. I realize not everyone is really that interested in the SR4 side of things. It will be used for character creation, more so I can get a bit more experience with the system. Keep in mind though, it's not something that is hugely essential to the overall PB3 game experience.

[Kai]

Depends if you're planning on running Tampa, I only got time for one game right now

[Reika]

Well, we've got two then...or is that three? Amp, are you actually in or just giving Reika shit?

Oh, he's probably just giving me shit.

[Ampere]

I'm in...just giving Reika shit.

[3278]

I would be interested, but the SR4 is a problem.

[Jeff Hauze]

Yeah, I had already considered that this afternoon. Initial thoughts were to use SR4, but then I realized that would be a little silly, considering I'm largely setting this before the prominence of the Wireless Matrix. So it's more likely that it will end up SR3 for that very reason.

[Reika]

Of course it'd end up in the system that I don't have the book for with me.

[lordhellion]

If there's still time, I'd like to get in. I've never gotten to play Shdaowrun before--I've always had to GM.

[Jeff Hauze]

Okay, so for definites, we've got: Reika, Ampere, Lord Hellion, and DV8.

Possibles: The Module, Kai, Serious Paul. If all three possibles become definites, then I'll only take one more player at most. Just please make sure that you can update somewhat regularly throughout the week, because I'd rather not see the game drag out unnecessarily.

As it stands right now, we'll be looking just pre-System Failure (I haven't looked up a year yet). I'm going to go with Seattle for ease of use. We'll use SR3 rules, and I'll likely be asking folks to use BeCKS rather than the points system. If you've got a huge objection to that, fine. But I much prefer dealing with that system when dealing with experienced characters. No specific point total yet, but more thoughts on that later.

General creation rules:

1. I'm going to be picky on characters. The core idea behind Old Dogs requires some heavy details on character backgrounds and contacts. So, don't be surprised if you turn in something and I ask for more info.

2. Be prepared for the deck to be stacked against you. That's the nature of Old Dogs. An extremely difficult task, big rewards, and one last chance to go for glory. I'm not looking to be an all out dick here, but just be aware of what you're looking at.

3. If you're not interested in something based around System Failure and the effects of those events, this PB3 won't be for you.

4. This is the time to go a little wild on characters. I'm guessing most of you folks looked over Old Dogs at one time or another. If you have, you know how odd some of those characters were.

More thoughts later I guess. That's it for now.

Reika: If you need SR3 books, let me know. I can cover you via PDF.

[Ampere]

I'll back out and observe. I'm like the only guy around that prefers the SR4 system to SR3.

[lordhellion]

Crap--I just looked around, and I don't seem to have any of my SR3 main books around (which is stupid, because I own like three copies of it). They must all be in storage in Oregon, though lord only knows why I didn't bring any of them with me. I've got BeCKS on PDF, and most of the SR3 sourcebooks with me, so I should be okay, but I'll let you know if I need some extra support.

[3278]

I'm definitely in. Bulldrek chews up a fair amount of my time online - a board with this level of traffic and this level of user requires actual, you know, maintenance - but I don't see any problem with the level of posting frequency you're looking for, and if all else fails, I don't mind passing a turn to keep things moving.

3. If you're not interested in something based around System Failure and the effects of those events, this PB3 won't be for you.

I don't know anything about System Failure, but I think I'm going to arrange it so my character doesn't, either, which will mean we get to "explore" it together, which is always my preference.

Let me know what kind of Karma outlay for the characters you're looking for and I'll NSRCG up a character.

For people missing books, Paul and I have, I believe, every SR3 book, so if you need anything, we can help, too. And with the NSRCG, you hardly need books for PB3s, anyway.

[TheScamp]

Looks like I'm a spectator, unless any of the 3 maybes becomes a no. Curses!

[Jeff Hauze]

Scamp, even if all three possibles are definitely in, I'm willing to take eight. There's still room for one more.

[TheScamp]

Schweet!

[Jeff Hauze]

I'll back out and observe. I'm like the only guy around that prefers the SR4 system to SR3.

Overall, I agree with you. I actually prefer SR4 as well as a game mechanic. (Fluff is easily another story.) However, I also want something simple for the PB3. Less of the crowd is as easily familiar with SR4, plus there would need to be some changes due to the presence of the Wireless Matrix in SR4. Additionally, I don't necessarily feel like putting all the work that may be needed to update certain cyber/bio/etc to SR4 rules. I want to put more of my focus of actually working on game material towards Tampa. So, I'm looking for the easiest solution to actually be able to run Old Dogs (obviously not the same Old Dogs, but the same core concept). SR3 would be the answer to that problem. Sorry to see you go though, Amp.

[Ampere]

No worries.
While I dig the SR4 system, the fluff up until SR4 was my favorite. Go figure.
I would have liked more Organized Crime detail, but really...it's a small thing.

I'm okay with bowing out and letting the folks more in to SR3 play. Whatever makes the game better for everyone.

There'll be other games.
S'all good.

[Jeff Hauze]

Since I've been asked about this already, might as well get some more thoughts out of the way.

Characters Sought

I'm not going to be particularly picky on what types of characters we have in play (though the truly odd is going to require some solid explanation to me, so keep that in mind before you start thinking about an HMHVV infected otaku bunraku slave). However, I do have a few recommendations.

1. Former Old Dog players - Don't try to recreate what you had before. If 32 wants to make a face for example, so be it. But Frost had his place, and I strongly feel that trying to recreate that magic here will take away from the original Old Dogs as well as the current game. I like the spot in my memory that Old Dogs holds, and I'd like to keep there. I'd also like to give this game a shot to create its own memories, without having to be compared to the original. The inspiration is the same, but it is not the same game.

2. The GM recommends - Having a decking competent character in the crew would be advantageous. Having more than one would even be shiny. I would strongly recommend that at least two or more characters (deckers or otherwise) be linked in with Shadowland. A face and/or person who can handle some tactical leadership is also probably not a bad idea. A wheelman (rigged or otherwise) also couldn't hurt. You will not be absolutely crippled without these things, so don't feel a pressure to cover them. But I wouldn't be upset to find all three of these areas covered. If you're looking at a decker, this is a game that could even allow for the possibility of a crippled or invalid type decker who is Matrix present more than physically present.

3. Problem Characters - Otaku are going to have an extremely difficult time getting past the GM, and are going to face huge problems in the game itself. By the very nature of their young age, they also go against the grain of Old Dogs Redux's core concept. I won't flat out say no, but expect a serious up hill battle to get such a character approved. The metahuman variants will also face some of the same issues, along with SURGEd characters. I won't say no again, but I'll be honest. You make a freak, prepare to get treated like a freak, in spades. Metahumanity racism is still very much alive in my own games, and when you suddenly are a troll that looks like a damn satyr...well, it's fairly safe to say you're a minority among minorities. HMHVV...I'm not opposed to ghouls, but again, expect problems from much of the world around if, especially if it is easily apparent. As for other HMHVV types? Look to what I mentioned about otakus.

4. Contacts, contacts, contacts - Expect me to ask questions about your contacts. Make sure you have them fully fleshed out. I want details, not just "He's my fixer." If you want me to develop a contact for you, so you have some surprise to your character's world, I'm willing. Don't hand me a list of contact types though, and expect me to build a major part of the character for you. The same holds true for your character's background. I want details that I can chew on for a while.

5. Character relationships - I have no problem if multiple folks want to know each other, be close friends, whatever you folks decide to work out. I wouldn't mind having a few outsiders, but if you all decide to work out a pre-arranged groups in terms of knowing each other or having worked together before, feel free.

[Jeff Hauze]

General Game Rules

1. Combat - Combat will essentially be freeform. I'll base intiative off of your stats, but I won't be requiring any actual rolls for combat. One, it helps to keep things moving faster. Two, I prefer the slightly more dramatic combat that the freeform PB3 format allows for.

2. Skill Checks - I may ask for skill checks at times though. Particularly in the area of NPC vs PC social interactions and knowledge skills. I'll of course still want things roleplayed out, but I don't mind having some kind of guide for success to judge actions against in these types of contests. We'll work on the honor system here, so you can handle die rolls how you wish, and simply post the results in the OOC thread. In terms of combat, if you feel more comfortable also putting up die results and/or allocation of combat pool (combat pool I do at least giving me some idea if you're using some during a combat sequence), then feel free.

3. Gear - I'm going to be a bit more strict on keeping track of gear. It will be essential to some of the style of the game. So, I'll be asking folks to keep track of consumables (first aid supplies, amount of ammo for given weapons, etc.), and I'll also be doing so as well. So do make sure to pay attention to these things.

[Jeff Hauze]

Character creation

Unless there are any huge objections, I'm likely going to require BeCKS to be used. I don't have a Karma total yet, but I'll edit this post sometime in the next day or two to give the details on that. I'll also note any special exceptions, such as buying Karma Pool, different race costs, and other types of things.

[DV8]

Unless there are any huge objections, I'm likely going to require BeCKS to be used. I don't have a Karma total yet, but I'll edit this post sometime in the next day or two to give the details on that. I'll also note any special exceptions, such as buying Karma Pool, different race costs, and other types of things.

Can we expect the figure to be around the recommended 425 karma? If so, then I can start doing a few of the number crunching parts while I think about the background.

[3278]

More. More. More would be good. If we're supposed to be has-beens, we have to have been at some point. Mostly, I'm worried my character concept won't work with 425 karma, so that's why I'm pushing for more. Of course, if we get 425, I'll just come up with a new character concept, so no big deal.

I'm currently planning on playing a spellcaster. With...problems. I have full background, but I can't nail a lot of details without knowing how much karma I have to screw myself with. So hurry up, Jeffers!

[Jeff Hauze]

Oh, these are has-beens, but they're vets. I guarentee we'll at least be at 450, most likley more in the range of 475 to 525. I'm going from memory here, but I seem to recall Old Dogs (which was before BeCKS, it was in fact an impetus for BeCKS, IIRC), was equivalent to roughly 500 to 550 Karma for BeCKs.

[Reika]

I'm still mulling over a character concept but I'm thinking a rigger type that has some sideline decking skills, that or a demo expert. Think it depends on what everyone else makes.

[lordhellion]

I'll take a decker--it'll fit in well with my character concept, which is a recovering Beetle-head.

[Kai]

Okay, I'm in, leaning towards physad/social adept type if that works

[Jeff Hauze]

Okay, here's the final tally. Characters can be built using 500 to 525 points of Karma.

A few notes on character creation.

1. Custom gear - I'll be fairly strict on this, so don't expect it to pass with flying colors. Custom weaponry will get an extremely hard look, as I see little need in most cases that can't be covered by existing weaponry with modifications. Custom vehicles (especially those using mil-spec gear and/or high end equipment) will also get an extremely close look. If you've got the money to build a fucking tank, you've had enough money to retire a long time ago.

2. Cyberware/bioware/nanotech - Most forms of nanotech I'm not opposed to (especially considering that much of it does very little in the end). Cultured and standard bioware are fine, just remember to provide some explanations of where you came up with it. Same goes for cyber and nano. Alpha and betaware are fine. Deltaware? See custom guns and vehicles. Make damn sure you've got a dire need for it, and an airtight explanation.

3. Edges/Flaws - I don't have a set limit in mind here, but do keep in mind that I'll use them. Also, keep it reasonable. If you have twenty four-point flaws, don't expect me to read it without laughing hysterically. I doubt this is an issue, but I do need to mention it.

4. Overall notes - If you've got a shit ton of gear, especially when it comes to vehicles, homes, etc.; you need to remember that if you've had the funds to pay for these things, you are already putting a strain on the character's fundamental reason for being in the game. If you want to go high-class and world-class, so be it. But start looking at places that you can show that this character doesn't necessarily own these things himself. Maybe it's covered by a syndicate, maybe it's covered by a corp. The whole gilded cage idea will certainly come into play here.

5. Contacts - Contacts that can easily be explained away in background (for example, close personal friends, family, kids, etc.) obviously don't need to be paid for. This is only true in cases where the contact is not someone who is going to typically offer something that benefits your work. (Your kid, for example.)

6. Short history of work - Is your character native to Seattle? Where's his primary work area? What types of jobs have they favored overall? Just give me some minor details here. Any outstanding events should also be detailed (you made a run into the Chicago Containment Zone, you had brushes with the Arcology under Deus, etc.) But again, keep in mind, I'm not looking for superheros here. It's easy enough to have been involved in big events, but in a peripheral fashion. (Something which Shadowrun modules so often forget.)

7. Due Date - All players who want in on the game must have a character idea submitted to me via email by May 23. On the morning of May 24th, I'm considering the game closed barring any unforseen circumstances. There may still need to be some character changes after that point, especially if I get characters at a later date in this window.

I'll be getting some notes up on minor changes I'll be making to the vanilla Seattle setting a bit later.

[Jeff Hauze]

Oh, and if it wasn't clear before, being a runner isn't an absolute necessity. If you have somebody you would rather work in through a corp, a syndicate, or even a private citizen (who obviously has some specialized skill sets), I'm not opposed either. That is, providing you give me some reasonable explanations for why they would be involved and some points in the background/contacts that let me pull them into this easily enough.

[DV8]

Oh, and if it wasn't clear before, being a runner isn't an absolute necessity. If you have somebody you would rather work in through a corp, a syndicate, or even a private citizen (who obviously has some specialized skill sets), I'm not opposed either. That is, providing you give me some reasonable explanations for why they would be involved and some points in the background/contacts that let me pull them into this easily enough.

That might be a little hard seenig as how we've got no clue what kind of frying pan you're tossing us into. While it's understandable that an upstanding father of four, mid-level Yamatetsu exec will be hard to explain into the scenario, it might also be difficult for a regular PI to be explained into the scenario if we don't know, at least somewhat, what's going on.

[Jeff Hauze]

Then I suppose I'll get a brief outline written sometime later this evening.

[Kai]

Looks like I need to get a duster on my way home for my SR3 books

[DV8]

Doesn't have to be much, but at least enough for us to write a believable background for an possible yet improbable character.

[DV8]

Is initiation allowed, Jeff?

[3278]

It's a good thing Dennis is around to ask permission, because I didn't even think of it. I'm an initiate, so I hope that's okay.

Got my character almost built last night. I'm "rules complete," I just have to finish writing the background, which I won't do until Jeff's finished posting his bit, since I'll have to know what year it is and blah blah blah. But I've got a solid concept, I think, and probably a useful character: I have a broad spell selection, but as an aspected magician, I can't project or summon. Because my character learned most of his combat and protection spells very recently, his spell selection is very much all over the place, particularly since until recently he obeyed the laws regarding force of spells and foci. Anyway, should be cool.

[DV8]

I'm about at the same point as you are, 32. I've got all the numbers down, and a solid concept in my head that I need to write down and send in.

Another question; I'm planning on making my character very light on gear. Is it possible for me to keep the remainder of my starting resources as on-hand cash, instead of doing that silly divide by 10 rule that you have in SR3?

[TheScamp]

Currently, I've got the beginnings of a washed-out security expert running through my head (physical, not matrix or astral). However, I also note that we don't yet have anyone working the guns n ammo side of things, which is a role I'm more than willing to slip into if necessary.

[3278]

2. The GM recommends - Having a decking competent character in the crew would be advantageous. Having more than one would even be shiny. I would strongly recommend that at least two or more characters (deckers or otherwise) be linked in with Shadowland. A face and/or person who can handle some tactical leadership is also probably not a bad idea. A wheelman (rigged or otherwise) also couldn't hurt. You will not be absolutely crippled without these things, so don't feel a pressure to cover them. But I wouldn't be upset to find all three of these areas covered. If you're looking at a decker, this is a game that could even allow for the possibility of a crippled or invalid type decker who is Matrix present more than physically present.

Something we should keep in mind. Is anyone planning on playing a decker, or anyone connected to Shadowland? My character cannot fill any of these roles as written, but I could play a different character if necessary.

[TheScamp]

Hellion's working the decker angle. I could also work in some light decking skills if I go with the security guy. Non-rigged wheelman is a possibility, as well. I'm looking at a lightly cybered transplant who's relatively new to the Seattle scene, and a bit old to work his way into a new city's underworld. Heavy on the skills and experience, not so much on the gear.

[Kai]

My character will have a connection to Shadowland, though not a decker herself, I imagine her having a good idea of the theory of most things if not the practice, if only to be able to hold a decent conversation with the people she needs.

[Jeff Hauze]

Is initiation allowed, Jeff?

Yes, as per BeCKS rules.

Background post coming shortly. My CBT session ran long last night, and I just got up.

[Jeff Hauze]

Dates

We'll be starting the game on the morning of October 29th, 2064. In all likelihood, the game will be ended by November 3rd, 2064. So, keep that short timeframe in mind when thinking about gear you may want to purchase (either at character creation or during the game). If you have something you absolutely want that will require more than a day or two to get, I'd strongly advise to get it at character creation.

Background

The hype of the comet has passed. When Haley's Comet faded from view in April 2062, the world seemed to have changed drastically. Though the occurrence of it was small, SURGE had forced yet another change upon the already battered world of the 21st century. Along with that, two new threats had presented themselves to the world. The Great Dragon, Ghostwalker, had taken control of his province in the Denver Front Range Free Zone. Effectively a nation unto itself, with all of the sectors subject to the will of Ghostwalker; the Mile High City had found itself at the forefront of international news for quite some time. Like all news stories in the modern age though, interest fades and the corp zombie slaves move on in their lives. The shedim, a new form of spirit that seemed to often take control of deceased (recently or otherwise) bodies in most cases, held interest for quite a bit longer in the shadier sides of the street. Every magician was now a bit more careful when astrally projecting, wondering if they would come back to find their body controlled by someone else. And when you saw one of your teammates die, would they stay dead?

Well, that's the world stage. But what about a bit more locally? Seattle, that great home of the shadows and the Rainy City, had adapted as it always did. Changelings became the all the rage in the club circuit for a short time. This inevitably led to the changeling "posers", which became the next big craze. Like everything else in the view of popular culture, these things eventually faded away into smaller niche interest groups. Life in the Rainy City continued as it always had. The rich stayed rich, and the poor died every day.

Some things changed though. There seemed to be a slight rise in patriotic feelings towards the UCAS, due to some of the events during the Year of the Comet. The "New Age for the UCAS, New Ares for the UCAS" campaign of Daviar's had found some success amongst the citizens of Seattle. For the denizens of the shadows, that meant that some old friends had made themselves a bit more visible. Agents from all those departments with too many initials were still rare in Seattle, but the stories of runners interacting with them seemed to be less of a tall tale these days. The Mob War had seemed to die off in some respects, as Bigio had led the Mafia to a slight lead in the major markets. Of course, the reality was much different. Rowena O'Malley had already gathered her forces. The Mafia Princess was convinced that Bigio had a hand in her father's death. Bigio had begun to feel some minor squeezes in some areas of the city, suffering unexplainable losses. The Butcher wasn't quite sure that O'Malley was the cause of his problems yet, but he wasn't the Don due to a lack of intelligence either. The war between the two hadn't even truly spread into the shadows yet, but the opening stages of this chess match had already occurred.

As for the corporations? Well, the usual movers and shakers were doing their usual moving and shaking. But the big news in the Rainy City was the upcoming IPO of Novatech. You couldn't turn on financial news anywhere in the world without hearing about it. Scheduled to take place in the Boston ECSE (East Coast Stock Exchange) on November 2nd; the world seemed to be on pause for this event. The Arcology had since been reclaimed, and the dust from the Corp War had settled. So really, it was business as usual in the shadows, right?

For anybody in the know about the 'Trix, the news there hasn't been good. There seems to be a small otaku war going on. Tribes all over the world seem to be going against one another, in some sort of factional fight between so called "Resonance" and "Dissonance" tribes. But even this seems to just be another temporary flare ups, in a long line of temporary flare ups, ever since the Arcology situation was resolved.

Summary

The team will be handling a job that will likely become a two part task. Initial meeting will take place on 10/29. It's a rush job, and the pay will be much higher than the usual jobs for the players involved. You will be based only in Seattle, and there should be no need to leave the city itself. There is the possibility for travel outside the city limits, just over the board into tribal NAN territory. The initially contracted job will be a datasteal that will take place during a very high-priority social event in a well-secured location. Seattle however, will prove an interesting playground during these next few days. Freakishly cold weather and unusual amounts of snowfall have plagued both coasts of North America over the last two weeks. It shows no sign of abating anytime soon.

I think that should be enough to start. Let me know if there's anything you need spelled out more.

[Jeff Hauze]

Since I was an idiot and forgot to mention it earlier...all characters should be emailed to jeffhauze@comcast.net by the deadline mentioned before.

If anyone is working on their character already, I'd like to get a general idea if you are finding 525 Karma to be adequate. Does it seem to make a solid veteran (though unlucky) character for you?