[M&M] Legacy of Justice (IRC campaign)

[Bethyaga]

I keep thinking about this and thinking about this. What do I want this world to be? A lot of it I've said before, but I'm trying to pull it together into something cohesive. Sorry if I ramble repetitively and without purpose in that redundant overly-verbose manner of speaking I have. Sorry if I ramble.

Post-Apocalyptic Superheroes.

That's the launching point. But what else? I wanted it to be (initially) about Golden Age heroes (30's thru 60's) thrown into a shattered landscape. Specifically, I imagined Marvel's line from the 60's--Cap'n America, Spiderman, The X-Men, Avengers, Fantastic Four--comics as done by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby... and throwing those heroes into a world they never made, as it were.

Now, the more I develop it, the more I'm realizing that the overall feel of the world itself (as opposed to the attitude/feel of the initial transplanted characters) is of 1980's Marvel (sorry, 90% of my collection from the 80's is Marvel), except 1980's comics if they were shooting for a grim, bleak, despairing setting. It's hard to put exactly into words, but there's a certain logic to comic books. The setting is post-apocalyptic, so the Union members from the past will probably be walking around with ripped and/or stained costumes (to show that it's a post-apocalyptic world), and yet in the numerous battles they will get in, their costumes are never damaged any further. Aries can toss around tanks and crush bricks in his bare hands, yet when he sets aside his axe and punches an enemy, it does only stun damage (because it's a fist). Rather than splattering Rat-Boy against the pavement, instead the punch knocks Rat-Boy 40 feet backwards where he slams against a wall and slumps to the ground. But at the same time, the situation around them and the relationships with other people can all be mostly realistic.

The nature of the wasteland that it earth means that communities (and therefore encounters) are mostly isolated, thus we don't have to worry much about how the situation in this location affects the next town over. Like Kyle said, it's a lot like early D&D (or current D&D) in that you can simply wander and deal with things as they arrive and not worry overly much about the consequences into the next issue or episode. Like early Star Trek or comics or sit-coms. Everything is episodic, and one game session probably represents one or two issues of a comic book.

As for tone, I want the world to be bleak and grim. There may be isolated pockets of civilization and joy and hope, but in general, everything is gray and broken and empty. I want scenarios and characters and encounters that are cool and often mysterious. Things should be superficially sensible.

I know what I don't want. I've decided I don't want this world to be full of overt political or social commentary. I don't want comic exagerations of modern trends. In fact, for the most part, I don't want much comedy at all. Irony maybe. Absurdism. But humor would detract from our pretense at seriousness. The people of this world take everything very seriously, in spite of illogic we may see as the reader, and we should write it as serious. In that vein, I think the Muppets are the only things so far that are really over the top. And even they are managable if redone.

In this respect, I really like my treatment of Elvis. I tried to imagine Elvis in a world of superpowers and apocalypse. I came up with a plausible treatment that contains some absurdist elements, but steers clear of a pompadoured hero in a white rhinestone jumpsuit blasting baddies with his Elvis powers.

Am I off base? Am I talking out of my ass? If this makes any sense at all, then can you make it jibe with your own vision of what's going on? I don't want these to be extreme guidelines which are etched in stone, but rather just guiding principles that can be strayed from when it adds appropriately to the whole.

*sigh* I've only gone and confused myself. There's something I want to convey and just keep missing. I feel like I haven't said anything at all yet.

[Serious Paul]

Say bethyaga before you cofuse yourself too much, ever see that episode of the Justice League where they end up in the 1950's wasteland thingie? Thats what this reminds me of. It sounds to me like you are at a cross roads here. Do you make it camp, or do you make it serious? If I am off base feel free to stop me.

...comics as done by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby... and throwing those heroes into a world they never made, as it were.

As a Captain America fan who used to own nearly the whole run from issue 241 on, I can dig what you mean here. I think part of the difficulty is that they were writing at a time when there was a brave new world, a here to fore undiscovered world? Does that make sense? Now the audience is much more jaded.

I'd suggest allowing the game the flexibilty of going either way depending on the players. Now this suggestion is aimed at the game as if it were seeing a publisher and not just for your irc game.

Now, the more I develop it, the more I'm realizing that the overall feel of the world itself (as opposed to the attitude/feel of the initial transplanted characters) is of 1980's Marvel (sorry, 90% of my collection from the 80's is Marvel), except 1980's comics if they were shooting for a grim, bleak, despairing setting.

Or hpw about some of the earlier Star Treks? You know the ones I mean, maybe thats a good model to use too. (Don't feel bad by the way, Marvel sold a lot of comics for a good reason! Make mine Marvel!!)

But at the same time, the situation around them and the relationships with other people can all be mostly realistic.

So GI Joe the cartoon all over again. Or He Man, or the eighties.

Things should be superficially sensible.

So is there hope? It seems like there is, and so that means while its tough its possible. A world on the brin, but not gone. Gone to me seems like Rolands world from the Gun Slinger Novels.

I know what I don't want.

I should have read this first, I was responding as I read. So what you mean is Batman from the superfriends gets tossed intot he Punisher War Journal. Eek. You are mean.

Well hopefully this helps.

[Bethyaga]

It does help. And you're very clearly in my head, Paul. I was thinking of using GI Joe and He-Man as examples, but then forgot as I rambled on.

Because the campy 60's Batman being dropped into a blasted wasteland is only good for the first couple sessions. If you want an ongoing campaign, then there needs to be a more middle ground to work with.

On the other hand, you are exactly right about presenting different possibilities to the reader. What I have here is the tone for the largest part of the book, but I would also want to have a large(ish) section on alternate directions for this world--talking about going the totally camp humor route or else going for ultra-gritty splatter type material. Legacy of Justice has great potential in either of those forms... they're just not what I want to play.

Basically, I want a post-apocalyptic supers world as written by Marvel in the 80's and approved by the Comics Code Authority.

And yes--there is hope. I don't want to lean too heavy on the grim and bleak. It's just little bits of hope. Because heroes of this nature HAVE to have hope. There's something they're working for. I have at least a couple What if...'s that lead to a nasty world, but the heroes are still struggling to restore what used to be good and right in the world. Back in the 80's, even the most horrible of stories in What if still ended on a positive note. This was a forum where they were free to destroy and maim and kill and COULD have had tragic endings if they wanted, but the vast majority of them still had happy endings. Legacy of Justice will have a lot of that. It's a bad world, but the heroes can still make it better--sometimes in small ways, sometimes large. Like Sam Beckett leaping from tragedy to tragedy, making things better.

[Serious Paul]

The more I read this more I love it. I will have some more stuff to add eventually, and some more comments.

[DV8]

It reminds me of the world from the Fallout games, only with a handful of superheroes walking around in it.

[Kai]

I've never read many comics, but the feel I got here which I liked was pre apocolypse, the Union was a bit campy, a bit out there, in a Superfriends sort of way, Good and Evil were clearly definied and they always won.

Then boom, the unthinkable happened. The world moved on to a Depression Era kind of feel, harsh, hard, where good and evil were there, but sometimes good people did evil things out of desperation or a need to change things. But there was an underlying hope and feel that things had to get better soon.

The Union wakes up and is confronted with the fact that they can't Save The Day and make everything right anymore, the world and its people have forgotten them and they need to find a place in the new one.

[DV8]

It reminds me of the world from the Fallout games, only with a handful of superheroes walking around in it.

Which reminds me...

With the flux-storms, what happened to the nuclear arsenal? Did the missiles fire? What happened to powerplants that were neglected? Did they have partial or complete meltdowns? If so, then is radiation poisoning common? Are there heavily irradiated areas?

[Bethyaga]

I've never read many comics, but the feel I got here which I liked was pre apocolypse, the Union was a bit campy, a bit out there, in a Superfriends sort of way, Good and Evil were clearly definied and they always won.

Then boom, the unthinkable happened. The world moved on to a Depression Era kind of feel, harsh, hard, where good and evil were there, but sometimes good people did evil things out of desperation or a need to change things. But there was an underlying hope and feel that things had to get better soon.

The Union wakes up and is confronted with the fact that they can't Save The Day and make everything right anymore, the world and its people have forgotten them and they need to find a place in the new one.

Thank you, yes.

[Bethyaga]

With the flux-storms, what happened to the nuclear arsenal? Did the missiles fire? What happened to powerplants that were neglected? Did they have partial or complete meltdowns? If so, then is radiation poisoning common? Are there heavily irradiated areas?

All of the above.

There may well have been a few missiles launched, but certainly not the whole arsenal. Many of the nukes (like much of the rest of the world) just disappeared or were altered. A few detonated where they were (largely underground in silos, but still exposed enough to cause much trouble). Some nukes are still out there to be found, maybe intact, our maybe slowly leaking radiation into the surrounding community. I don't know how many nuke plants there were in 1969, but they would certainly be inactive now. Some may well have melted down.

With all of the above, remember that there were still superheroes trying to stop or mitigate these horrible disasters, and even some of the so-called villains would have pitched in rather than see their whole city destroyed. Things could have been much worse. But yes, there are definitely some irradiated areas out there (not as many as logic would dictate, but more than enough), and many more areas that are disasters waiting to happen.

How's that?

[DV8]

That's good.

[Bethyaga]

The New Motherland

Kabak Konstantinov, the former Soviet hero known in the US as the Red Titan, was in the United States as part of a diplomatic/goodwill mission on the day of the apocalypse. He was aware of the emergency and wished to help, but was too far away to arrive in time.

Caught in a flux maelstrom, Kabak was swept away and awoke much much later to find himself and his powers altered in strange new ways. Seeing the danger and misery around him, he set out to help as best he could. Eventually, he tried to leave to see what happened to his beloved homeland, but he found that the further he moved from this new place, the more his powers faded. He was forced to return.

Finding himself more powerful than ever, but mysteriously linked to this patch of West Virginia hill country, Kabak set out to restore this community and build a new home for himself. Thus, he built новая родина, the New Motherland. It is a community built on Communist principles, although he does not make a big fanfare of its Communist roots. Everyone works for the common good and receives in return according to their need. The people are poor, but not destitute. And they are very secure under Kabak's care. There are strange, seemingly restrictive rules in the community about trading, about dealing with outsiders, curfews, other things. But the residents don't see anything odd about that, and they don't cotton well to outsiders telling them that they're doing it wrong.

[Commie Hillbillies with shotguns. Okay, not exactly that, but I couldn't get the image out of my head.]

[Cazmonster]

The New Motherland
[Commie Hillbillies with shotguns. Okay, not exactly that, but I couldn't get the image out of my head.]

Mu heh - a commune full of communists. Can they have Ina May Gaskin deliver all of their babies?

[kyle]

I've never read many comics, but the feel I got here which I liked was pre apocolypse, the Union was a bit campy, a bit out there, in a Superfriends sort of way, Good and Evil were clearly definied and they always won.

Then boom, the unthinkable happened. The world moved on to a Depression Era kind of feel, harsh, hard, where good and evil were there, but sometimes good people did evil things out of desperation or a need to change things. But there was an underlying hope and feel that things had to get better soon.

The Union wakes up and is confronted with the fact that they can't Save The Day and make everything right anymore, the world and its people have forgotten them and they need to find a place in the new one.

Thank you, yes.

I'll post more on this later, but I wanted to get this thought in before other ideas cropped up and distracted from it. I think Bethy's initial concern was this: If the Union is campy and, thus, the gameplay has a camp feel to it, then the whole world is just a one or two game gimmick-- which is what we want to avoid. For a continuously playable world, typically it has to be serious, not campy (Paranoia being the only successful game to overcome this notion). I don't think "camp" is the right word to describe the original Union. That term gives rise to images of Bruce Cambell in Evil Dead I and II, or the batman TV show. "Camp" denotes a humorous, poking-fun-at-oneself style- which I don't think we're going for. While the original Union (pre-apocalypse) may have been corny, I don't think it was campy. I think it was just simplistic and straightforward-- the good guys were good guys for the sake of saving the world; the bad guys were bad guys for the sake of ruling the world; good guys and bad guys both wore costumes because they are good guys and bad guys. Thus, it may have been corny, but not necessarily campy.

In any event, the way I envisioned this world was that gameplay was very serious. While every group has a sarcastic, wise cracking member, the general play would be serious. Characters are trying to cope in a newly discovered disaster which stands in stark contrast to the simplistic, cut and dry, good vs. evil world they lived in before. Now, instead of seeing Captain Freedom running a town and knowing he's a good guy because he's Captain Freedom, the world has been turned upside down and our characters will not know what to expect-- is he crazy, is he good, has he become a fascist or a despot?

In my character (which I will post more on in the other thread later) these struggles are an inherent part of the character. Aries will be constantly trying to figure out if he's dead and in hell, or if the world really ended (which is hard to envision for an immortal).

So in my long winded way, I'm trying to say that I think its important to stay away from a campy gameplay style, but campy (or corny) character development may be appropriate considering what the world was like prior to flux storms.

[Cazmonster]

I don't know if this is going to help, but back in the late 80's/early 90's, there was a series of comics from Impact: Comet, Fly, Web, and a few others that had the sort of high action low consequence action I think of when I think of the Silver Age. It is the feeling of adventure and power those characters experienced that rings true to the Justice Union. Later, the artist who did the Fly went and did a short-lived Justice Society series (Pre Zero Hour) that had the same sort of action-meets comedy thrills.

(Specific example, SPTerrorists are about to blow up a power plant, their chief has an eye patch. Flash redirects a missile back at the dude and in his reaction panel, his eyepatch flips up to reveal a normal, if a bit buggy eye)

And earlier in the 80's my buddies at Marvel Launched the New Universe, and Justice was my favorite book in that series (although DP7 kicked ass too). There, the world was dark in that dystopian disco is dead sort of way. The panels were all dark and foreboding, the storylines were compelling. Yes, there were action thrills, but you got the sense that the world was complex and dangerous, even if there were heroes around to try to do the right thing.

I agree with Kyle, the characters may have started out in an action-thrill world, but now they're in a gritty one. (Feel my DC Heroes RPG chops!) They're going to have to learn and adjust to the world around them.

[kyle]

I agree with Kyle, the characters may have started out in an action-thrill world, but now they're in a gritty one. (Feel my DC Heroes RPG chops!) They're going to have to learn and adjust to the world around them.

I think we're all talking on the same level. As I think about it, I've been primarily thinking about it from a character creation/personality perspective (because I'm primarily a character and not gamemaster). But this same sentiment needs to carry through for the world creation descriptions as well (and pretty much has).

When I think about the world, I guess I think about a "fallout" type world we've been discussing with no overarching authority and only small pockets of civilization- if you're willing to call them that. For non-superheros, the only thing to do is revert back to hunter-gatherer mode and try to just find a way to survive- either by banding together or by being a serf to a super.

In my head I visualize it as an overly bright, washed out world. It's just hard to focus because the sun beats down like your in the middle of the goddamn desert, but you're actually walking across the ruins of a destroyed interstate highway. In that way I see it as a mad max type world (but not Thunderdome-- GOD ANYTHING BUT THUNDERDOME).

[Cazmonster]

In my head I visualize it as an overly bright, washed out world. It's just hard to focus because the sun beats down like your in the middle of the goddamn desert, but you're actually walking across the ruins of a destroyed interstate highway. In that way I see it as a mad max type world (but not Thunderdome-- GOD ANYTHING BUT THUNDERDOME).

That's funny, I've been seeing it as a washed out world as well, but that's because of the lengthy rain/wind/snowstorms. Everything has a beaten down and muddied over look to it inside my head. And there's plenty of shadows for the nefarious types to hide in.

And Thunderdome - come on! The crazy pilot dude has a kid - how cool was that?

[kyle]

That's funny, I've been seeing it as a washed out world as well, but that's because of the lengthy rain/wind/snowstorms. Everything has a beaten down and muddied over look to it inside my head. And there's plenty of shadows for the nefarious types to hide in.

I agree with that. I've been trying to think of the title to a really bad movie from about ten years ago where a guy had to travel through the snow-wrought tundra to an abandoned town with a little girl, and in the end the girl ended up being an android or something. Anyways, if anyone can think of the title (it had some quasi-famous french canadian character actor in it), I'd appreciate it. The movie was ridiculous, but it had a cool post-apocolyptic frozen wasteland setting which kicked ass, and would be appropriate for the game-- the frozen wasteland spotted with ruins part- not the high tech underground labyrinth part.

[Kai]

My vision of the world itself I guess was always like the abandoned base housing we lived near once. A few were in use for things, but for the most part it was overgrown, some of the tiny houses had curtains in the dusty windows, playground equipment was rusty but still okay, some of buildings had collapsed. Grass grew over and in the pavement, etc.

I see subdivisions like that, a few families living in the more sturdy houses, the rest left to ruin, some lots cleared away to use to fix up other places, turned into community gardens and playgrounds, a lot of infrastructure still there (its only been 35 years) but 90% of it unused and ghost town-ish. People having a market in what used to be the grocery store, going back to the main street shops with living space overhead, etc.

[Bethyaga]

God, I love you people!

[Don't mind me. Carry on.]

[kyle]

God, I love you people!

[Don't mind me. Carry on.]

Yeah, this is a great deal for you, isn't it. You take my idea (freely given). You take someone else's rules and then you let everyone else write it for you. And you reap all the monetary reward when it is published.

... and if I know the gaming market (and you know that I do), you stand to make many tens of dollars-- IF NOT MORE!

[Bethyaga]

And then I take over the world!!!!!!

[Bethyaga]

Several half-formed ideas in a row:

The Bugeaters

The hordes of Nebraska. They sweep off of the dusty Nebraska plains on flux-altered horses (and some other beasts) of every shape and size, raiding and pillaging villages and leaving destruction in their wake.

[Bethyaga]

One Tin Soldier

In the midst of an extremely harsh land... a small oasis which the inhabitants call San Miguel. The people are led by a benevolent ruler and they live simply but safely. They watch with increasing concern and pity as the land of a neighboring community slowly turns sour. The nearly landless neighbors figure out that San Miguel must have some incredible power source at its center that keeps their land safe and provides for them. The neighbors demand access to the power source. The people of San Miguel explain that they have no such resource, but are merely lucky that their little valley is protected. We have little, they say, but you are welcome to come to San Miguel and live here with us. The angry neighbors do not believe them and resolve to take what they want by force.

The inhabitants of San Miguel are all slaughtered and their conquerors move in to find the Michaelites were telling the truth. Without some saving magic to take back to their own village, the conquerors simply take up residence in the safety of San Miguel.

The curse of San Miguel is that all who die by violence within the valley are doomed to live in San Miguel forever as ghosts. So all 200 original inhabitants plus every murder and accident and suicide since then all wander the streets and houses to haunt the current inhabitants.

[Cazmonster]

Several half-formed ideas in a row:

The Bugeaters

The hordes of Nebraska. They sweep off of the dusty Nebraska plains on flux-altered horses (and some other beasts) of every shape and size, raiding and pillaging villages and leaving destruction in their wake.

I'd like them to be the Raveners (Like Ravening Hordes) but that's just me. Heck, they could probably sweep as far west as Ohio on an especially good run.

[Bethyaga]

Moletown

A massive flux storm threatened the community of Hope. As usual, their patron Steelheart uses her force field powers to form a protective dome over the village. The storm bombards the dome with rain and sleet and sand and rocks. Combined with a massive mudslide, the conditions were exactly right--the entire force field dome became encased in a natural concrete, and even when Steelheart gave up from exhaustion after two days of holding up the concrete coccoon, the dome stayed in place. Rather than being crushed as they expected, the town of Hope found itself sealed in cement.

They slowly tunneled their way out and realized they could no longer stay. They sealed up the cavern behind them, hoping to deter looters and others who might defile what remained of their town.

Years later, the abandoned town-in-a-bottle was discovered by a Moleman scout. [The molemen need another name, but as in other comic worlds, they existed before the apocalypse.] Realizing its potential, the Molemen openned the sealed tunnel to the outside, and they now use Hope as a staging area for nighttime forays into the surface world.

[Bethyaga]

I'd like them to be the Raveners (Like Ravening Hordes) but that's just me. Heck, they could probably sweep as far west as Ohio on an especially good run.

Bugeaters was actually the name of Nebraska's football team 100 years ago, but then we changed it to Cornhuskers. Apparently Nebraskans suck at picking cool names.

[kyle]

I'd like them to be the Raveners (Like Ravening Hordes) but that's just me. Heck, they could probably sweep as far west as Ohio on an especially good run.

Bugeaters was actually the name of Nebraska's football team 100 years ago, but then we changed it to Cornhuskers. Apparently Nebraskans suck at picking cool names.

I actually like Bugeaters because it brings an image of locust swarms-- which seems to be what these guys are.

[Bethyaga]

I agree, Kyle. Plus, maybe two people who pick up this book will get the reference.

[Cazmonster]

The U.S.S. Nimitz Bad Guys

Just after the Doomsday Engine started, the aircraft carrier Nimitz, along with the majority of the 4th Fleet was off of the coast of Viet Nam supporting the Thai Democracy against the advances of Viet Nam. Sideways Sue, the teletransporter and her team of supers were there as well, fighting the necromantic Supers - the Hanoi Horrors. In a climactic clash of power as a thunderhead of fluxenergy built to critical mass above, Sideways Sue charged headlong at Toxic Tran, and rocketed into him with her density power fully maxed.

They crashed into the flight deck of the Nimitz as they battled. The explosion was tremendous, to say the least. A spiraling vortex of demonic flux power, necromantic magic, and nuclear energy ripped along a teletransitive line and the entire ship was ripped out of reality.

But not for long...

Three days later, as the demon hordes were assaulting Sioux City, the Nimitz ripped back into our reality, one hundred feet in the air. The cataclysmic fall landed directly on the Demon Lord and his house troops and squashed them halfway to the bedrock. Radiation, poison and transpower wiped out the rest of them, and a quarter of the remaining population of Sioux City.

Now, the Nimitz has become home to a motley horde of evil. The guns and ammunition aboard have yet to be used completely up, and there's enough high-grade techworks within to use to create more.

[Bethyaga]

Kyle and I were talking earlier, and he made a good point: a lot of what we've written so far is GM Section material.

Two-thirds of it could be player material if edited correctly, and so I got to thinking. I don't really want a book where Place A gets a description in the Player Section, and then GM's have to hold that spot while flipping 67 pages back to get the GM info to go with it. But even without breaking up material, I'd still like the Player Section to have as much, if not more, game world material as the GM Section.

Off the top of my head, my first thought is to do up most permanent locations and persons in the Player Section, but write them in the style of a Shadowrun sourcebook--that is, lots of good description with all sorts of possibilities and rumors that doesn't ever tell you what the REAL truth is, instead leaving that up to the individual GM to pick and choose.

The GM Section then would contain those items and places (among others) where any description gives away the secret, plus a long list of random encounters and possibilities.

That's just off the top of my head. Suggestions are welcome.

[Cazmonster]

I'd be happy as all get out with that, so long as in the GM's section you got the actual real deal story about things. I've never liked in SR that there's plot stuff that you don't get told straight up. It makes it harder to plan important games when you really don't know what's going on in the world.

[Bethyaga]

Okay, then how about this:

Players Section: All of this public info in narrative form, chock full of rumors and varied possibilities.

GM Section: An alphabetized index of people, places, and things with actual game stats and the real story.

So every name, place, etc in the Player Section listed in boldface will have a corresponding entry in the GM Index. The GM Section can also have all sorts of other stuff that doesn't have mention in the Player Section as well, if desired.

Something like that.

And sorry if this seems like getting ahead of myself, but knowing how (and to whom) stuff will be presented helps shape the material.

[PS, Caz... I like the Nimitz.]

[Serious Paul]

I only half joke when I say make the GM's stuff in 3d and require glasses...

[Bethyaga]

I only half joke when I say make the GM's stuff in 3d and require glasses...

Dude, it is so funny that you say that. Kyle called me earlier for character help (thanks, Deev), and we got to talking about this. His idea was to put it in that crappy secret code where everything turns red and then only the GM gets the dorky red glasses to translate.

If it wasn't such a pain in the ass to use (and so easy to see through without glasses), this is a really good idea.

[Cazmonster]

Moletown
Years later, the abandoned town-in-a-bottle was discovered by a Moleman scout. [The molemen need another name, but as in other comic worlds, they existed before the apocalypse.] Realizing its potential, the Molemen openned the sealed tunnel to the outside, and they now use Hope as a staging area for nighttime forays into the surface world.

This is fantastic! However, I'm stuck now with the naked molerat from Kim Possible, just bulked up to human size and anthropomorphized.

They could be starmoles - with half a dozen forearm-length tentacles sticking out of the front of their faces...

[Bethyaga]

Naw, screw it. I'm going back to my original layout outline. The Player Section has an intro, sets the tone of the world. Talks about key events of the last 40 years--establishes some key differences between LoJ and the real world even prior to the Apocalypse. The Player Section will give the high points of the reworked world map (mostly US... mostly eastern US), and will present most of the general knowledge things--stuff everyone in this world should know (or at least stuff all of the players CAN know without ruining anything). There's discussion of the nature of flux energy, and the storms and their possible effects; the dangers of living on the Shattered Earth; mutants and supers and low-grade and normals; the change in the landscape, and the danger of the flora and fauna; typical info on trade and communication and transportation; stuff like this. All of this is more than enough to provide the factual info needed to be a player in this world, plus all the setting and style needed to create appropriate characters.

All the secret stuff, all the stats, all the details go into the GM Section.

Unless someone stumbles over a better way to present this stuff without making the secrets too tempting for the player-reader and the organization not too inconvenient for the GM-reader.

The Molemen Still need a better name (like The Mole People ), but yeah, they should definitely look like starmoles.

The Nimitz I have this image that the three days that the Nimitz was in Limbo could have seemed much longer to those on board. The trapped supers and soldiers could have been waging a war of months or years on this warship-in-the-ether before it finally dropped back into reality. (Think of the X-Men and Magick in Limbo... SHIT; I'm the only one that old.)

[Serious Paul]

Fuck that noise Bethyaga, I remember those issues, thank you. Heh. I like that idea,and the idea that in various portions of the flux affected world timecould be hinky. I keep imagining a place where time stands still, a town where time goes really fast, maybe one where time goes in reverse, or does a "Groundshog Day" every day.

[kyle]

Naw, screw it. I'm going back to my original layout outline.

Here's an idea- because you're really only talking about making it available electronically in pdf format- why not have two versions? Why not write the whole thing as the DM's version, with the bolded "for GM's eyes" sections imbedded with the player's sections. Then make a player's version available where all those GM's sections (and the detailed GM's rules section at the back) are removed- preferably replaced with art provided by me. Now I'm not what you would traditionally call an artist, but I've been known to dabble in watercolors when I was younger.

[DV8]

Disclaimer: I'm not such a brilliant writer, so do what you will. But if you do decide to take this seriously, I suggest listening to this music while you ponder it. It helps, I promise.

.: The Legion of the Damned [The Insane]
The Few. The Proud. The Damned.

The Legion of the Damned is part ghost story, part truth. It's hard to discern what rumour falls into which category, because of the many conflicting reports about these...men. If men is still what they remain to be.

Thirty-five years ago, when Washington DC was wiped off the map and NORAD was scrambling every available fighter jet and readying every missile they had available to defend North American airspace from what was still an undetermined aggressor, they called in for as much backup as they could to defend the many nuclear missile silos dotting the map of the United States.

One of the forces that was put into play was the USMC's 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit (Special Operations Capable), Reconnaissance Platoon, under the leadership of Lieutenant Colonel Matthew D. McEwen and Sergeant Major Tyrone L. Johnson. This group of fourty-strong, able and experienced marines was sent out into the Nevada Desert to recon and secure a nuclear missile silo that had, only hours after the devastating attack on Washington DC, gone off-line and didn't respond to any incoming communication.

The worst was feared, the best were sent.

It is uncertain what happened at the missile silo, but heavy seismic activity was registered at a research station in San Jose, California indicating a large, underground explosion near the location of the missile silo. The defense forces were spread too thin, back-up was sent too late, only to find the missile silo destroyed and unusually high radio-active readings in the surroundings. The Recon Platoon of the 15th were presumed killed in the blast that became known as the first nuclear detonation on American native soil. The United States fell apart by in-fighting and flux storms, and over the years whichever group desperately tried to maintain control over various parts of the nation eventually disintegrated into lawlessness and dispair.

And from the ashes of a flux-raised continent reemerged the 15th's Recon Platoon.

Eye witness reports of the group say they fight with a cold determination, a nearly unstoppable force of precise destruction, whose goals are unimaginable as their motives. They come and go with a seeming chaotic regularity, fighting against everything and everyone for unfanthomable reasons. Never are things stolen, never are weapons caches emptied, never is anything taken as a trophy. And they sink back into the fog of war as quickly as they came.

They have completely black pupils, and their camouflage paint look more like geometric symbols or runes of power now, instead of the traditional stripes across face, neck and hands. Their uniforms are a twisted mockery of their former combat fatigues; no longer uniform, but changed and twisted. Donned with symbols and fetishes, like skulls tightly wrapped in barbwire. Some of them seem to have an array of scars across their exposed skin, carved in the same, sickening geometric designs, while others are completely blemish free. Others have strange bumps and cartilage deposites protruding through their skin. And then there are some who seem to have continual weeping wounds. They carry the traditional weapons of their former shadows, but these, too, like their uniforms, are adorned with symbols and fetishes, bloody crusts of hair and skin, burnt feathers and barbwire. Sometimes the decorations seem to be part of the weaponry itself, like it was produced that way thirty-five long, bloody years ago. The effects of their equipment seems altered as well...more extreme, more violent.

Nobody knows what they want. Nobody knows where they are. Nobody when they'll strike. And nobody wants to know, everyone just wants to hide.

[Cazmonster]

That's incredibly cool - sort of like Chaos Marines. I like it a lot!

[Cazmonster]

The Molemen Still need a better name (like The Mole People ), but yeah, they should definitely look like starmoles.

The Nimitz I have this image that the three days that the Nimitz was in Limbo could have seemed much longer to those on board. The trapped supers and soldiers could have been waging a war of months or years on this warship-in-the-ether before it finally dropped back into reality. (Think of the X-Men and Magick in Limbo... SHIT; I'm the only one that old.)

Okay so how about the Dwellers or the Deep Dwellers for what outsiders call the Mole Folk (Molk). Their own name is untranslatable and involves tentacle waving.

And having the Nimitz be stuck in limbo for months works for me as well. Seeing f4 phantoms engaging demons while the ship floats through the chaos of the flux is just too cool. Let's keep it to months and Sideways sue and Toxic Tran died right at the beginning, leaving four or five lower-powered supers survivng on both sides.

[Bethyaga]

The Cult of Personality

In the decades since the fall, there have been any number of flying schmucks with super-strength who decide to pull on the silver hood and gloves and call themselves Major Justice. Some have been well-intentioned, some have not. Many have just been clueless.

And Justice isn't the only one. All the heroes of old have had immitators at one time or another, but Faux Justices are by far the most common.

[Cazmonster]

Golden Colorado Community

Doctor Apocalypse's Armageddon Engine wrought untold destruction across the vast majority of the world. Fist-sized flaming hailstones pulverized houses. Fuchita-5 tornadoes gobbled up mile-wide trenches of land from the Mississippi to the Rockies.

There were precious few places that survived at all. One, through what seems infinite luck, was Golden Colorado, home of the Coors brewery. A strange confluence of weather seemed to keep that community out of the worst ravages of the Flux Storms. Yes, there were demons and monstrous invaders, and they inflicted their own allotments of suffering, but the people in the area fended them off (says something for independance and the second amendment - and some advanced chemistry knowledge).

Today, this decent sized community of 1,400 (and that's the population within a day's wagon ride) has one major industry - cool, golden beer. Because of the quality and the reliability of the breweries, Golden is somewhat safe. No one in the area wants to be known as the people who cut off the region's beer supply.

[Cazmonster]

Here's a thing, how advanced did computers get with the increase in technology - would a Metallo or Braniac villain have been possible? Of course now, after the cataclysm, things are different, and it's not easy to get power or connections to do anything with a computer, if they still work at all.

[DV8]

I'd like a Warhammer 40k like tech-curve. Most of the knowledge about machines is lost, and people are struggling to keep whatever tech still works up and running. Perhaps even tech-priests - people with Gadgeteer-like powers - tending to the machines.

Or a Fallout style tech-curve, with a lot of technical advancements, but relatively lo-tech solutions. Ugly, bulky, maintenance heavy.

[Bethyaga]

In the tradition of superhero logic, general technology before the fall was not too much more advanced than 1969. However, there were these isolated items--like a Brainiac or Reed Richards' inventions or Viktor von Doom's or Cap'n America's shield or Batman's unreal gadgets or Iron Man's armor--yet somehow, all these things, for whatver contrived reasons, never saw realistic widespread application. We have no idea why such a thing would have been so pre-fall... it's just the way comics are... but post-fall, we now have the isolated pockets of high-tech and these leftover remnants, but not enough civilization to recreate any of it (or even apply or power much of it) on a realistic scale. The tech-priests in some areas are a very cool option.

If you want to see a pre-fall computing/robotics aberration like Metallo or Ultron, there's no reason why such a thing can't be part of history.

[Cazmonster]

Really, that works for me. I wanted to populate some of my in-head ruins. It helps to know that phones were the big rotary jobs, cars all had v8 leadburners and a computer was a room-sized box.

[Threadbare]

Hey, actually, I don't think Nixon would have any powers. He never got any breaks along the way, what makes you think he would have in the post-apocalypse? I don't think he should have any apparent powers, at least. Maybe you should take the cue from Avengers Forever and make him a skrull.

[Cazmonster]

Route 666 phenomenon

It was once said that you could go anywhere on the American freeways. It was the last great frontier. Tens of thousands of miles of open roadway beckoned millions of drivers to travel and explore. The love affair between America and the automobile seemed destined to go on forever.

The Armageddon Engine put an end to that. When the shockwave of Flux energy tore across the States, a strange eddy of cosmic energy moved along the freeways, like St. Elmo's fire up and down the masts of sailing ships. The energy altered the roads, changed them in ways that still make no sense.

But it hasn't kept them from being used by those desperate enough. Certain stretches of road now intersect with alternate dimension, so long as the appropriate speed can be attained. A trip through one of these other dimensions can shave days off of a trip, it can also mean death.

(Damnit, the brain's not working right. The idea is that there are stretches of road that can teleport those who drive it, or move them through other dimensions. Otherworldly beings can also take advantage of them and come here.)

[Cypherpunk]

Has anyone here played Fallout or Fallout 2? The entire world seems to shape itself like Fallout in my head. Dystopian, dead-tech, futuristic wasteland. Mutants. The only remnants of society is based on the 1950s and 1960s. It's that last bit that really makes the connection complete, since in Fallout the 50s nuclear public awareness iconography are often the only sources of information they have on a lot of the surviving technology, like nuclear bomb shelters.