Shadowrun OOC:: In the Dragons Secret Service-General

3278 · Post by **3278** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 4:40 pm

There's so much stuff that needs to be coordinated between the teams - chargen, background, the proposed War College, that sort of thing - that I figured we could use a thread for everyone, so we didn't all have to read two threads. This way the Team threads can be for Team-specific ideas and discussion, and the General stuff can go here. Cool?

Jeff Hauze · Post by **Jeff Hauze** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 5:00 pm

What exactly, if anything, do we have on the War College so far?

Wildfire · Post by **Wildfire** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 5:39 pm

Some quick thoughts from my POV. Teams are put together around age 10 to 12, all the Classes at various facilities are given a battery of physical and personality tests and matched into 6 member Teams. The Teams are distributed across all the locations and put through the next stage, where like 10 Teams are considered a Cell, and while most of the training in intra team, the specialized training is contained in the cell, aka all the cell's mages do their training together while the gunners all practice, etc.

Teams are the basic unit for everything, and only rarely is there a change to a team before they start doing missions, and teams have a 'sister team' based out of another location (hence Team Gold and Team Blue).

How's that sound?

JohnnyRico · Post by **JohnnyRico** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 5:50 pm

Sounds good, but what about those that S-K doesn't know about at age 10? Those people that they don't have contact with until age 18 or so? How do we fit in?

Wildfire · Post by **Wildfire** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 5:54 pm

Well, I was going on the idea that seems more locigal once it was explained to me, that if you're aiming for extremely loyal corp biased special ops teams, you'll do it by raised them together from about the time they can remember, as a team. Had to re-work my character, but I think its a better idea that all of us were in our teams and under S-K's guidance since like 10.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 5:57 pm

Jeff Hauze wrote:What exactly, if anything, do we have on the War College so far?

From my point of view, the War College is an SK facility in Germany that takes the best of everyone from /very/ early tests. I mean, like, 5-year-olds. These people are put in together, trained and bred together, living in the same skin together for their whole lives.

As people die or are removed from the program, numbers lower. They are seldom replaced, except in extraordinary circumstances.

The School is divided into Classes of 500 or so students, grouped by age and ability. By the time they graduate, this number is down to less than 100. The Class we would be in would be the 2039 [or so] Class of Dragons. [Date is by childhood admission.] These Classes are then divided into Teams; the number of people remaining in the Class determines the number of Teams.

The Teams are trained together, but not all the time. Gold Team and Blue Team work together on joint training, yes, but Blue team also lives apart, and trains apart. This means some rivalry between the two teams. Until, of course, Classes are compared; then it's all 2039 Dragons together, rivaling everyone else.

The Dragons are the best special operatives /in the world,/ arguably, and I think something pretty extraordinary must have happened to them to make that happen. Now, I know most everyone else is thinking something /really/ different from this, but this is my idea of it, and hopefully we can find some things in it worth using.

Jeff, if it helps, think of the War College as the Clans, and the Classes as a Sibko. That wasn't what I was thinking when I had the idea, but if you take out the Clan-specific stuff, the genetic stuff, and all the other BT-specific material, you're talking about a similar idea. Mmm, also, wasn't "Soldier" based on the same general principle?

Wildfire · Post by **Wildfire** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 6:11 pm

Some IRC discussion:

<[3278]> I just hope we can work out the background stuff. I mean, more important than anything in this game is characterization and roleplaying, and if we can't work out our collective history, we're going to have massive problems.
* SludWork nods, yours and mine grew up under SK's watchful eye, so you might know mine, though she was assigned to another Dragon team...and transferred in with a op reputation of being unlucky.
<SludWork> a rivalry between mine and Wild's chars, similar types, physads, though mines stealth, hers is melee.
<[3278]> ...See, it's a lot like that. Everyone is going for independant backgrounds. It's like, by the time we're done, no one actually knows each other, and no one grew up together, and these are just a bunch of people from other units dragged in together.
<SludWork> from what i know...I'm the only one that transferred in.
<[3278]> Oh, no. Not the only one. It's actually looking crazily common. Some of that may have changed, but many, many people were planning similar things.
<SludWork> ah...hadn't seen Caz's or Cash's...so I'm going from what's been posted. ;/
<[3278]> Well, we'll see.
<Wildfire> Well, I'm going on the assumtion that we've been together for about 6 years now, or if you want her being a little younger when she came in (12's about as low as realistically possible, 8 if you want utter sillines) then longer
<[3278]> See? Another transfer case.

<Wildfire> No, S-K, 'aquired' her in Peru
<[3278]> Exactly.
<Wildfire> Unless yopu can give me a case of why S-K has a compound /in/ Peru that teaches Capoeria
<SludWork> we were under the assumption that together as a unit for 6 years...before that, they were recruited, etc.
<[3278]> Well, that wouldn't be terribly difficult - undercover specops teams working with natives would want to do that - but it wouldn't matter; you're still not part of the War College, still not raised with the rest of us. But I don't think we're going to be that unified, so it's no big deal.
<[3278]> Ah, see, I was operating under a different assumption.
<[3278]> Which means these are all, I don't know, strangers, basically.
<SludWork> when initially together...they would be...but after 6 years of missions and training...they wouldn't be.
<Wildfire> Well, me take was the War College was all good, but every person with the same talents would be trained the same way, no S-K facility would teach more than a single martial combat style, because its all the same, I was more thinking they specifically pulled outsides into the College at various points to introduce variables. She's been in the college since she was 8/12/15 whatever
<[3278]> You're comparing 0 years to 6, and seeing closeness. I'm comparing 6 years to 28, and seeing strangers.
<[3278]> And that's fine, Wild; I'm just getting used to a different way of doing this.
<SludWork> 32: I've watched documentaries where rangers in Vietnam became family in a year because of conditions...
<[3278]> Of course, Slud. I've /known/ those people. Hell, I've /been/ those people. You know I haven't always worked day jobs. But again, 1 year isn't a whole life. Nor is 6.
<[3278]> God, I love Gryce.
* SludWork nods, we've just been working under different feelings as to how our b/g's should mesh, something to ask Paul about, because we were under impression of 6+ years..but not necessarily SK born and bred.
<[3278]> Yeah, and that's fine. I think the idea of being bred together was mine, anyway, and not something we'd decided on.
<SludWork> Gryce?
<[3278]> My character for Paul's other game.
<Wildfire> Well, I was also thinking my character was an anomoly, a kind of a test for the team, like goals were based ona team finishing something, and they gave you all her, who didn't speak any english, but was good when she understood what you wanted.
<SludWork> and lunch time, gotta reboot.
<Wildfire> Gyce is a bastard

<Wildfire> +r
<[3278]> And that's kind of what I'm saying, Wild; everyone, of course, wants to play the anomoly. It's not your fault you do it better than most.
<Wildfire> Heh

Well, its not set, either, I can change it so that she was raised S-K, but her parents worked as agents in the INM
<[3278]> Ah, I see the source, now: I made a recommendation of background, just stating my opinion, and no one responded; so I was operating off the assumption that we were going to do it that way, without waiting for other people to say, "Yeah, sure." My fault.
<[3278]> No, no. I don't think changing her around is necessary. I mean, if we're not all on the same wavelength at this point, shoehorning everyone back in isn't going to be much fun. Play your character, I'll play mine, we'll all be good.
<Wildfire> Well, honestly, its not that big of a deal, as long as she has her skill set, which is more a reflection of locale than background
<Wildfire> I back down her age a bit, and her proficiency at skills, and instead of her oddities being a culutural difference, she's just weird

<[3278]>

I think that would be cool, but it's /completely/ up to you. I'm 28, by the way; I figured I'd be at the upper end of the age spectrum, per Slud's advice.
* Wildfire nods
<Wildfire> Its cool, she'll be at the younger boundary
<[3278]> Oof. So much to do. I've still not even /started/ working on his stats.
<Wildfire> I haven't even looked at magical stuff, either. Its all so much still a vague idea
<[3278]> Yeah, me too. I'm not sure what course I want to take with my magic. I'm likely going to have to spread myself /really/ thin.
<[3278]> Well, I've got stuff to do here. I'll talk to you both later. Bye-ee!
*** [3278] is now known as [32|away]
<Wildfire> Work time, be back from Kai in 10 to 15
*** Wildfire [~wildfire@cloaked.charterga.net] has quit [Quit: ]
*** SludWork [~c6f6f608@cloaked.dumpshock.com] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC 0.5 (EOF)]
*** Kai-Lunch is now known as Kai
*** Sludig [~c6f6f608@cloaked.dumpshock.com] has joined #goldteam
<Sludig> back
<Kai> Posted some thoughts in the general Dragons thread
<[32|away]> I hope you die!
<[32|away]> Wait, no.
<[32|away]> That's good.
<[32|away]> Yep, that's what I meant.
* Sludig wonders how many on both teams were born/bred SKers.
<Sludig> there are two on Gold (for now, no idea about Kain's)
<[32|away]> I wonder, too. I mean, we keep asking for background, but there's not a whole lot. You, me, and Wild all have it. Who else?
<[32|away]> Kain's will be.
<Sludig> so three...and despite me being a in transfer to the unit...your chars probably have trained close by me for a lot of years.
<Kai> I'm a doofus. I can't multiply. Its 937.5 karma, not 917.5. Sigh
<[32|away]> That's so much karma.
<Kai> I know
* Sludig likes points...karma has too much funky math after a while.

<Kai> I could never grasp the balance with points, karma I understand after buying improvement to characters, it seems to make much more sense to me
<Kai> Anyway, reworking her background as she was born and raised with her parent undercover in the INM in Peru, and then just got a late start into the formal classes at 8.
<Sludig> here's an interesting question, would the War College military school bed by training cadre, or male/female?
<[32|away]> Training cadre.
<[32|away]> IMO.
<Kai> I was thinking like boarding school, Classes and then dorms inside each class boys and girls. Until teams that is
<Sludig> I was thinking a mix of both...
<Sludig> Hold old is your char Earl?
<[32|away]> 28. The upper end of the spectrum, as per your suggestion.
<Sludig> hold old is your Wild?
<Kai> 25, lower end

<Sludig> So Earl was in a higher class because of age, but would probably have seen/heard of Nikita (my char), and depending...Wild's and mine were probably in the same cadre (if done by age.

)
<[32|away]> Well, no, I would have trained with you, actually. I was just admitted later, and have had more training to do, because of my magic.
<Kai> Yeah, I was thinking there was a 3 year age grouping of Classes
<Sludig> I figure the cadres are by age...even as vast as SK is..the washout rate by the time teams are selected, there would need to be some brought in from the outside.
<[32|away]> All of us would be the 2039 Class, or so. Well, I'm about to write out my point of view, so you'll see.
<Kai> I was seeing multiple classes everywhere, and we might not have all been from the same Class before we were a team, but we were all in that age range
*** Jeff [EternalDre@cloaked.dynamic-dialup.coretel.net] has joined #goldteam
<[32|away]> Just made my idea post for the War College.
<Jeff> Checking...
<Jeff> Whoever mentioned about training together since like age 10, I could kiss you.
*** Rico [~rogue2015@cloaked.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #goldteam
<Jeff> I really hope that everyone starts to understand that there's no way SK would even accept you at a later date. Not enough loyalty implied.
<Kai> That was me, but obviously from our two posts 32 and I were thinking muchly different things

<[32|away]> We are.

<[32|away]> Jeff: I'm thinking age 5 or so.

But, you know, I'm a little out there.
*** [32|away] is now known as [3278]
<Kai> I was thinking the War College was like S-K's /entire/ childhood training system for combat
* Sludig nods.
<[3278]> [I'm so happy; I have the mIRC from work at home now. All my aliases, my interface...I could cry.]
<Kai> heh

<Jeff> 32: Exactly like the Clans was what I was thinking.
<Jeff> You're so spot on with that.
<[3278]> Well, we're going to have to work this stuff out, and with Blue team, as well.
<Jeff> These folks would be a culture unto themselves.
<[3278]> I'm glad I made the General thread, now. I didn't even think about it before, but we really have to work with them closely if we want anything like a unified background. I should have thought of it earlier.
<Rico> What if the parent was a loyal, if hidden, employee/trainer? The kid doesn't know it, but his father is giving him the same upbringing as everyone in the war college, but somewhere else
<Kai> I was kind of thinking 10 just to introduce a little individual personality development before they became a team, so they don't all act, react, sound, etc exactly alike
<Jeff> Especially if the War College follows that line of thought, it makes things more interesting.
* Sludig was thinking this...despite training together...there would be some attrition due to wash out etc, and would pull in, from a younger age (pre-20) some outside, though loyal somehow.
<Jeff> What happens when the replacement for a lost team member comes on board? Who the hell would trust them for the first year, or two?
<[3278]> Rico: That'd be /so/ impossible, though. I mean, training like in the War College, but alone, and in secret. He just wouldn't have the ability. I mean, there's a reason they train the army together, you know?
<Jeff> Sludig: I see what you're saying, but I just have a heard time buying that with SK. Especially with SK and their loyalty concerns, and considering that there is no more skilled teams than the Dragons.
<Rico> I'm talking from ages 0-18 or so
<Kai> Its so against the grain of making an SR character, but different is good, too

<Jeff> If you were talking Firewatch, maybe. If you're talking Red Samurai, possible but unlikely.
<Jeff> But SK....I just don't see it.
<[3278]> This is /absolutely nothing like/ making an SR character.

<Jeff> Kai: Exactly.

<Jeff> That's why I like it.

<Rico> And we're not exactly talking about some book-teacher training them, we're talking about a former USMC Gunnery Sgt. who happens to be one of the War College trainers, but his family doesn't know it
* Sludig nods, that's why if they are the son/daughter of a loyal SK employee...or something similar. I like and I don't like the clans anlogy.
<Kai> Hmm, here's an idea, DRagon candidates are taught /exclusively/ by their parents if they are Dragon, or an assigned mentor, the have /no/ contact with people their own age until 10 when they are placed in a team.
<[3278]> Oof. I'm in a lousy mood right now, and my brain still isn't quite straight from this weekend, so I'm going to go. But let's throw ideas around - mostly in thread! IRC is making this /really/ hard to follow, since a lot of the decisions that have been made have been made in private, and we can't all follow it - and see what we can't turn out.
<[3278]> Have a good day, everyone.
<Rico> Uhm... I was thinking closer to 18-19 for William.
*** [3278] is now known as [32|away]
<Rico> later 32
<Rico> Well, I have something I have to get to. Be back some time later
*** [32|away] is now known as [32|msg-to-page]

Jeff Hauze · Post by **Jeff Hauze** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 6:14 pm

Earl: Pretty much spot on with what I was picturing. Quite honestly, that structure goes against my nature of SR characters. But that's really the point here. SK is a corporation, more than any other that runs on proven systems. They are nothing if not methodical. While I can understand there being freelancers or company men who have as much training or skills as members of the Dragon, and such people would definitely work for SK, I understand that they simply wouldn't be a part of the Dragons. This isn't a shadowrunning team or even SpecOps per se. The Dragons are SK's ultimate weapon, the final solution. You go through the system to be in the Dragons. There's only one way in, through the system. The only way out is in a pine box.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 6:27 pm

Thank you, Wildfire, for the log; good idea, that.

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 6:49 pm

Okay, this is far less cool for me. I'm not interested in playing anything resembling an Ender's Game character.

SK is my characters career, not his life.

Jeff Hauze · Post by **Jeff Hauze** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 6:55 pm

Okay, there seems to be some debate/misunderstanding here, at least in my mind.

Let's take this step by step as I see it. Sound off as you wish.

Earl said:
From my point of view, the War College is an SK facility in Germany that takes the best of everyone from /very/ early tests. I mean, like, 5-year-olds. These people are put in together, trained and bred together, living in the same skin together for their whole lives.

As people die or are removed from the program, numbers lower. They are seldom replaced, except in extraordinary circumstances.

The School is divided into Classes of 500 or so students, grouped by age and ability. By the time they graduate, this number is down to less than 100. The Class we would be in would be the 2039 [or so] Class of Dragons. [Date is by childhood admission.] These Classes are then divided into Teams; the number of people remaining in the Class determines the number of Teams.

The Teams are trained together, but not all the time. Gold Team and Blue Team work together on joint training, yes, but Blue team also lives apart, and trains apart. This means some rivalry between the two teams. Until, of course, Classes are compared; then it's all 2039 Dragons together, rivaling everyone else.

I agree with most of that, but I think there are a few things I'd change. Let's break this down to a basic level. Let's say that the training department of the College goes over the tests that are administered to all children and citizens of SK worldwide on a regular basis. By age 10, any children chosen for the Dragons are brought to the War College for more testing to begin. From there, the process that Earl desccribed above takes place.

However, there will of course be exceptions to this rule. This is a corporation after all. Someone who shows late aptitude, but great aptitude, knowing a VIP, having a family with pull inside the corporation, some kind of major event that distinguishes you in another line of SK service, etc. So, that way, those who want to have more of the "lone wolf from outside the standard structure" personality/background for their character can do so, while those like Earl and myself who want to have the "one wheel in the cog of the Great Machine" style influence can do so. Additionally, it allows for some interesting RPing opportunities. Let's say for example, that all of Blue team trained together along the standard path with the exception of Lilith's character who comes in at age 15, due to her family managing to pull some strings.To the rest of Blue team, she would be suffering from the "rookie" moniker even years later, since to the rest of us, we grew up as adolescents together, while she would seem somewhat of a stranger in comparison. This of course would change with time, but some elements of it would remain. To make things even more interesting, let's say Rico's character, our CO, came in much later at around age 18. This makes things even more interesting. We know how to trust our commander, who in our minds, is a near total stranger, while the XO is someone who the majority of the team has known since his first boner. The above is of course an example. But I think it would satisfy both groups here. I guess I'm really asking if we can all agree to one standard training structure, that is the ideal circumstances for all Dragons to go through. That doesn't mean that all Dragons do. Just that in ideal circumstances that is the case. Can we all agree to the above interpretation as the ideal setup?

Earl said:
Now, I know most everyone else is thinking something /really/ different from this, but this is my idea of it, and hopefully we can find some things in it worth using.

Agreed. I think we can pull some things from it as I mentioned above. I think you and I are a bit more into that actual exact setup.

But I think we can use some of it for a common ground for all of us. One other issue I'd like to address as a group. Loyalty within SK. We've got the Krupp family as one faction, though minor, still present. A very large opposing faction with Lofwyr. Thoughts on this? Jeff waits for Earl to go hog-wild.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 7:11 pm

I agree with Jeff. And on further thought, I'd like to revise the age to 10, as Jeff does.

Caz: Well, okay. What do you suggest? Now, I personally think that it's absurd to just "work for" SK as a specops specialist. I mean, that's like being some guy from France who joins the SEALs, and goes home at the end of every night of training. But if you've got suggestions...

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 7:19 pm

I was under the impression that he would be 'joining up' with SK for a term of service, exactly like someone would join the local military. While he's 'on duty' he's there at the SK post, just like if he were in the US army, he might be stationed at Camp Lejune (I can't think of any other bases off hand) but he would still have the ability to request leave or furlough to visit his family.

I wasn't thinking that this was like the 'Day Job' flaw. He's in this for the long haul, exactly like any other 'lifer' corporate employee, the only difference is that he protects the SK's resources with a gun instead of a laptop.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 7:28 pm

Well, that's possible, although in Shadowrun, such "conventional" military forces seem few and far between. But such things exist today, so they could then.

What do other people think about that?

Wildfire · Post by **Wildfire** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 8:11 pm

It can work really well, especially if we can all go one way or the other, training from very young, or on a term by term. We get a kind of super close group core, and then a few military-ish members who change often, which gets S-K some outside skills (hell, maybe the core has standing orders to kill any term members if they go against S-K) and forces the core group to learn to adapt to different people quickly.

Eliahad · Post by **Eliahad** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 8:44 pm

I think what Wild says makes sense (I know I'm not in the core groups here but hey, I always have two cents) On the other hand...if a core group has casualties, where would they pull the replacements from? I don't think they'd draw them out of other groups as that could potentially damamge the growth of the up and coming. Though it would still be difficult to integrate the new blood, it would not damage the potential future benefits of the 'lifers.'

3278 · Post by **3278** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 9:08 pm

Eliahad wrote:I think what Wild says makes sense (I know I'm not in the core groups here but hey, I always have two cents) On the other hand...if a core group has casualties, where would they pull the replacements from?

Well, from my point of view, you pull them from the other members of the Class. Let's say the Class of '39 starts with 500 people. 400 die or are transferred by age 24 or so. That leaves 100, divided between the 2 Teams. Then you have 10 or so "front line" Team members - the people we're playing - on each Team. The other 40 or so people are your reserve; they do slightly less urgent jobs, and wait for a member of the Line Unit to die, so they can take their place. But that's just how it would work in my head.

Well, so we have these two radically different ideas. What about a comprimise? Like today's SpecOps, teams are recruited both from military academies and from the best of the best outside the School of War. Basically, those from the School - which works exactly as stated above - are on the fast track, "guaranteed" a shot at the Dragons. But people with truly exceptional abilities are also recruited from outside the School, although obviously not from outside the Corp.

This allows both types of characters, as Jeff was saying, without detracting from the purity of the War College idea. The Dragons simply admit a few outside members; that doesn't change the War College.

What does everyone think?

TheScamp · Post by **TheScamp** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 9:33 pm

I think it's a good compromise; the idea of everyone coming from the War College was, to me, a pretty stale proposition. While it might make a certain amount of sense, from a gaming perspective it's kind of boring, you know?

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 9:40 pm

I think the War College is a solid idea, sort of like a boarding school with a direct transfer into the active military. But I can also see the validity of other sources of quality operatives.

Drodowyzc is an olympic calibre biathalete, he's got the sort of endurance, determination, drive and rifle skills that make him one of the best in the world, and he was doing it for the joy of competition and the chance to prove himself as possibly the best. Outside of the Combat Games (or whatever the battles mentioned in Samurai Catalog were) there'd be no way to test the SK Dragons openly.

In my character's case, along with some others (we still have no idea what Uncle Joeseph or Cash are up to), there are obviously other ways to get to this level of ability.

Another thing that I perhaps have made unclear. My character would have competed in the olympics perhaps as many as eight years ago. Medalling in his event would have brought attention from the major corporations. Hell, it's possible that SK sponsored him anyway (he's polish). After the olympics, there's not too many job opportunities for 'skis fast and puts holes in targets at 100 meters' outside of corporate/security anyway.

Lilith · Post by **Lilith** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 10:02 pm

Jeff? Pardon me while I laugh LOTS, okay?

15 was about when I'd have Kyle joining the Dragons.... Born to SK parents, he grew up in Malibu, Calfree until he showed up on the SK Dragon radar, and then they shipped him off to Germany (He hates Germany - Too cold and what's all this white shit flying around?) to play catch-up and get him assigned to a team.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 4:45 am

Okay I need to go on record here.

The Corporation is your life. The Corporation is your God. Your Family, your country. You are loyal. You are dedicated. You are patriots. You would die for the Corporation. It is more than a day job, it is a way of life. It isn't justa career choice-its the only choice you have ever known.

Now this is not to say that you are required to be vat born and raised in a bad Kurt Russel Movie. There is room for freelancers, but with a catch.

Why would SK spend the time and money on you? Why would they share their grade A bang bang, and intelligence with you? Being a superior athlete or having lucky parents is thin to me, sorry Caz and Rico I singled you out right there. Not because those are bad ideas, but to me they need just a bit more. Same for Wildfire and Lil as it stands right now. I like all the characters, but why are you a part of an elite team that has access to people who have been vat grown state raised and state trained.

[Edit] Part of this was answered online by Caz. My infinite Thanks to Caz for his participation in my experiment.[/edit]

<Paul> I am doing this in an attempt to clarify my own vision of this game and what is going on.
<Cazmonster> WOO HOO!
<Cazmonster> Preach to us, Oh Paul!
<Paul> Caz no offense but becaues you are here and I know what you have planned and I know that you have the balls to defend your ideas, and the brains I am picking on you
<Paul> So please don't take it personal brother
<Paul> Okay I need to go on record here.
<Paul> The Corporation is your life. The Corporation is your God. Your Family, your country. You are loyal. You are dedicated. You are patriots. You would die for the Corporation. It is more than a day job, it is a way of life. It isn't justa career choice-its the only choice you have ever known.
<Paul> Now this is not to say that you are required to be vat born and raised in a bad Kurt Russel Movie. There is room for freelancers, but with a catch.
<Paul> Why would SK soend the time and money on you? Why would they share their grade A bang bang, and intelligence with you?
<Cazmonster> The Droz is an olympic caliber athelete, with guns.
<Paul> Right now as it stands you are a freelancer,a t least thats how I read your PC.
<Paul> Why do they need you?
<Cazmonster> He's probably one of the ten best gunmen on the continent.
<Paul> They canvat grow you and state raise you and train you.
* Paul is being adversarial on purpose.
<Cazmonster> They can't vat grow real dedication.
<Paul> Thank you.
<Cazmonster> I was olympic quality on my own.
<Paul> Thats what I wanted hear
<Paul> So why do you work for SK?
<Cazmonster> That was supposed to be the idea. Droz is Polish. I'm sure that they have gotten screwed over again in the next century.
<Paul> Heh
<Cazmonster> He works for SK for the prestige, and for professional pride.
* Paul concurs considering the state of europe in SR
<Cazmonster> There aren't many places where 'skis fast and shoots really well' go great on a resume.
<Paul> So is he loyal?
<Paul> Hahaha
<Cazmonster> Very much so. He will have been with them for at least six years.
<Paul> This is why Caz is my big sharp clawed dangerous nigga!
<Eli_likes_bulldrek> Niiiiigaaaahhhhhh
<Cazmonster> It could be that SK was willing to sponsor his second Olympic run.
<Eli_likes_bulldrek> Hey Paul, copy that and put it on the topic
<Paul> Thast what I was hoping to see.
<Nexusvoid> So, did you like the song, Eli?
<Paul> I am going to.
<Paul> Caz:: I think it would be best if the Corp did indeed sponsor your upbringing, your tarining
<Paul> Training that is
<Cazmonster> That works out just fine.
<Nexusvoid> Possibly secretly?
<Nexusvoid>
<Paul> See I was worried.
<Paul> I wanted a team.
<Nexusvoid> "Hello, sir. We are your father."
<Cazmonster> He would have done the olympics at 17 on his own, or with Polish/family money.
<Eli_likes_bulldrek> I loved that song, thanks Nex
<Paul> A team of Freelancers is just another team of Shadowrunners
<Cazmonster> Him at 21 would have been on the SK buck.
<Nexusvoid> As a matter of fact
<Paul> You people are more
<Paul> So much more
<Cazmonster> Yeah, didn't want to be a freelancer, wanted to be a company man, but one who had made the choice to join up.
<Nexusvoid> Paul, how would someone who was trained and groomed behind the scenes by SK?
<Nexusvoid> Sort of the result of a social experiment
<Paul> See I figure it is still too early for a Kurt Russel Soldier Program to be in full effect.
<Nexusvoid> He thought he was living his own life, but everything was being manipulated
<Paul> Nexusvoid:: Thats pretty cool sounding.
<Nexusvoid> Then when they thought the time had come, they reeled him in
<Paul> The cool thing about SK is Lofwyr and the worlds biggest Corporation.
<Paul> They have Hella influence.
<Cazmonster> That works. He was all about the skiing and the rifle skills from early on.

See what I am getting at all?

Jeff Hauze · Post by **Jeff Hauze** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 5:00 am

That's why I suggested the comprimise above, Paul. It allows for what Caz, Lilith and whoever else you mentioned want to do. Additionally, it allows for the overtones of the Soldier program style that Earl and I seem to be thinking along similar lines about. Which reminds me, Earl, I'm going to try and catch up with you tomorrow. Character idea I need to iron out with you. While I personally would rather see everyone go through the War College setup from age 10 and on, I understand that not everyone is agreeable to that. I think what was discussed above is a good deal for both ends of the spectrum.

Once again, I'm going to bring up this question. Paul, I'm specifically looking for your input on this. The loyalty issue between Lofwyr and the Krupp family. What's your input?

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 5:05 am

Let me talk with 32 on this, then I will give you the definitive answer, Ok?

Jeff Hauze · Post by **Jeff Hauze** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 6:31 am

Two questions, both magic related.

1. Earl, do you need a hand on pounding out any details about the initiatory group?

2. What exactly is the status on foci? We can request them from the Quartermaster, though they are unbonded? So, if we have certain personal foci that are important to our character, foci that are used outside of our missions, does this mean that they've requested them through SK and not had to use any of our starting resources for them? Or have we paid for these ourselves? Or are these more generic foci that are granted for usage for a particular task?

3278 · Post by **3278** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 8:05 am

Jeff Hauze wrote:1. Earl, do you need a hand on pounding out any details about the initiatory group?

Not so much. I just need someone to kick me in the ass tomorrow on #dragons and remind me to do it. It'll take, I don't know, 3 minutes.

Jeff Hauze wrote:2. What exactly is the status on foci? We can request them from the Quartermaster, though they are unbonded? So, if we have certain personal foci that are important to our character, foci that are used outside of our missions, does this mean that they've requested them through SK and not had to use any of our starting resources for them? Or have we paid for these ourselves? Or are these more generic foci that are granted for usage for a particular task?

1. Foci are free.

2. You must bond foci.

3. If you have /personal/ foci, these must be payed for and bonded.

4. If a need can be shown for foci for /all/ missions - not simply a one-shot need - then it is still free, but still must be bonded. In other words, a weapon focus - which is obviously useful for more than one mission - you get free.

Cool?

Wildfire · Post by **Wildfire** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 3:18 pm

A quick redux of our little plot, Jeff and 32, posted at http://www.winternightex.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=19 Please take a look, correct, and add as you see fit.

EDIT - Slud informs me you're going life, too, Cash, so feel free to write yourself into our little mess if you like

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 3:28 pm

Here's a simple question that will help me set the age of my character - what year are we playing?

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 3:50 pm

We start at November 11th 2061.

Lilith · Post by **Lilith** » Thu Jul 18, 2002 3:02 am

Between talking with Rico and talking with Sludig, I have a question:

Like it or not, we can't all run around in the full group all the time. Sooner or later we're going to have to break off into single and two-man groups.

So, here's my question: Are there established pairs for us to work in when we break off, or is it assigned as the situation warrants?

JohnnyRico · Post by **JohnnyRico** » Thu Jul 18, 2002 3:12 am

Let me answer that one. We really can't say until we hit the planning stage IC.

Since letting us know one way or another that would not only be presumptious on Paul's part, but also possibly give us advanced warning of the plot, I doubt that we will get anything in that respect.

In other words, we'll just have to wait and see.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Thu Jul 18, 2002 5:11 am

I put off maing this post for a long time. At least a week now. SO here it is in a nut shell. This has become a major chore for me of late. No one seems to like anyone else they are playing with. I spend as much time refereeing personal differences as I do trying to put the game together. To me it was okay and expected at first. Now it just sucks a lot.

Now this may piss some of you off. Sorry in advance.

This is Soldier. This is Enders Game. This is not Shadowrun. This is not about unique indivduals as much as it is about a unit. A small specialized unit. I realize we all have had some disagreement on what makes this unit, so let me clarify::

All of you will be Saeder Krupp. Period. That means Corporate Citizens selected for your highly specilaized talents AND your total loyalty to SK. Characters will most likely be very similar in their overall makeup, as they share a lot of the same traits and have similar if not exactly identical backgrounds.

Next order of business: Skill sets. What makes up a spec op? Ask any one of us and get five different answers. Any set of skills are OK. Heavy Weapons are Okay. You are Delta Force meets Marine recon meets SAS meets James Bond. The point of having a team is being able to spread load some of the skills, BUT remember that most SpeOps know how to kill, especilly using weapons. Its okay to have two characters with a Shotguns skill. WORK TOGETHER. Period.

The War College is In. Everyone recieved any and all of their advanced training here. Period.

TEAM:: WORK TOGETHER. If you guys aren't a solid team, I am going to chew you up and spit you out. Taht also means if I spend all my time trying to make you not hate each other, then I will take my sadistic fanatasies out on all of you.

In the end I want to remind all of us, myself included especially, that this is a game. Its only as cool as we make it. If we make this a living hell of infighting and spite, then thats what this will be. You people are the smartest and coolest players I have ever had. EVER. I have neever had a totally cool kick ass group like this. NEVER.

Get your shit together. We start August 31st. Rain shine, snow, no character or character. Regardless. I expect you to resolve this amongst yourselves--you are all way too smart to need my big dumb ass.

Okay sorry to have talked at you like this, but I am hoping this will motivate us all to get int he car togetehr and go for a cool ride!

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Sat Jul 20, 2002 3:26 am

2) In your last post in the General thread of In The Dragon's Secret Service, was your intention to say that Everyone had to come from the War College? I just want to clarify it so I can know what direction that my character's history is going.

Yes and no. At some point all of you attended the war college. For at least a thirteen week course, but it can vary. I see the War College as being first generation.Not quite to the Kurt Russel soldeir level.Yet...

JohnnyRico · Post by **JohnnyRico** » Sat Jul 20, 2002 8:32 am

Does that mean that I'm going to have to teach some little mute kid to kill stuff with a Boot?

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Sun Jul 21, 2002 12:45 am

FlameBlade · Post by **FlameBlade** » Sun Jul 21, 2002 12:50 am

*tempted to remove Rico's vocal chord and beat him with boot.*

Too bad this is not bulldrek.

Just dropped by to wish you a good game. The concept looks awesome.

JohnnyRico · Post by **JohnnyRico** » Sun Jul 21, 2002 4:24 am

Flame, have you seen Kurt Russel in Soldier? He shows a child that does not speak how to beat a dangerous creature to death with a Boot. So don't have taken offense to it.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Mon Jul 29, 2002 4:40 am

Okay I need the following from the team leaders-Guess what You are getting responsibilities now!:::

An Email/PM containing the following-I DO NOT WANT INDIVIDUAL EMAILS/OR PMS FOR A REASON:::

The Name, Rank and Nationality of Each of your team members.

Their DOB and Place of Birth.

Sex, Age and Significant Scars or Marks.

I also want a Team Call Sign, and Individual Callsigns for your team members. You run the Team you make the call.

I also want your, as in your PCs location at the begining of this mission. The old GMs Where are you?

Team Leaders will be saddled with more and more responsibility as we draw closer to starting.

JohnnyRico · Post by **JohnnyRico** » Mon Jul 29, 2002 8:40 am

You're going to make me track down these people? Ok. One question though. When do you want it by?

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Mon Jul 29, 2002 2:50 pm

Sooner Rather than Later, preferably before August 31st at 0000. I need it for my next post.

Sludig · Post by **Sludig** » Mon Jul 29, 2002 4:11 pm

I have one suggestion (depending on who sees this) e-mail the team leader with all but the call sign. Make it easier on the team leaders.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Wed Aug 14, 2002 9:43 pm

Okay I have the Information I requested from Blue Team, but not Gold Team. Gold Team Leader???? (Heh, I know, I know Gathering and Gen Con is barely over.) Seriously though, kick that out to me as soon as you can, so I can post.

Some specifics::

Scamp:: I haven't been ignoring you I just have to make a decision on it.As of right now plan on whatever benefits you the most happening.

Cash:: You have been occupied of course, but can I get a "I'm still alive and playing post" from you, please.

Nexusvoid:: How goes the Decker?I have some real nefarious plans for you.

Uncle Joeseph:: You have all the books you need? Let me know.

3278:: Can we work out a time to visit? I have some books to drop off and I also have a small business proposition for you.

Jeff:: I am an asshole-I totaly didn't mail that to you. I am on it. I promise Sorry man.

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Thu Aug 15, 2002 9:28 am

All I need are the guidelines for creating a character by points method. I think it's in SRComp, but I realized that I'm missing that book as well. Conceptually though, the 'zombie's done. Just need to calculate the points and flesh him out a bit.

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Thu Aug 15, 2002 2:50 pm

Serious Paul wrote:Okay I have the Information I requested from Blue Team, but not Gold Team. Gold Team Leader???? (Heh, I know, I know Gathering and Gen Con is barely over.) Seriously though, kick that out to me as soon as you can, so I can post.

Some specifics::

Cash:: You have been occupied of course, but can I get a "I'm still alive and playing post" from you, please.

You can, it just won't come until Sunday at the earliest, he's still driving cross country.

TheScamp · Post by **TheScamp** » Thu Aug 15, 2002 3:47 pm

Scamp:: I haven't been ignoring you I just have to make a decision on it.As of right now plan on whatever benefits you the most happening.

Um, cool? I've been babbling so much on the threads in question, I've fogotten which things I've asked, and which apply any more. Which question is this in reference to? Is it the bioware thing?

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Wed Aug 21, 2002 4:27 am

Okay some breaking News to announce.

Lilith has for personal reasons bowed out of the game. Eliahad has replaced her. Get with the new program!

Oh and my best to Lilith, and hopefully yours too.

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Wed Aug 21, 2002 4:55 am

Bye Lil.

Woo Hoo! Eliahad!!!

Cazmonster plans something horrible to do to Eliahad...

Jeff Hauze · Post by **Jeff Hauze** » Wed Aug 21, 2002 11:53 am

Well...shit. There goes my character's background.

Cazmonster · Post by **Cazmonster** » Wed Aug 21, 2002 3:21 pm

Dude, you have this dangerous habit of attaching your backgrounds to other characters.

Come on, Semper Gumbi.

Jeff Hauze · Post by **Jeff Hauze** » Wed Aug 21, 2002 5:29 pm

No, the character's background is still intact. It just throws off one of the major elements of his background that I had planned. Readjusting it is in progress. Not a big deal, just threw me for a loop for a bit.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 4:58 am

3278????????????????????????????????????????????