Wellbutrin

Bonefish · Post by **Bonefish** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:31 am

I recently had a fit of near-suicidal depression, and my semi-ex-girlfriend(yes, the cutter!) recommended I check into mental health. I did, spent most of last week in there, and was proscribed wellbutrin.

Well... Holy fucking shit. This stuff is fucking AWESOME! It's kinda like a cocaine/meth high without the teeth grinding, sexual dysfunction(i.e. being aroused, but unable to maintain erection), or crash. It really helps with my anxiety/negativity, and has improved my Battlefield 3 game vastly. It's also expensive as shit, and since my Health Insurance is in a limbo ATM, It's goddamned expensive. But well worth it.

Now, I noticed that Sal was also on Welbutrin a while back(maybe still is?), and I was wondering: what are your impressions of it, Sal?

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:26 am

As someone who frequently interacts with persons who have contact with the QMHP (Qualified Mental Health Provider) I can say definitively that each person reacts differently. Some guys are dialed in for life; others adjust physiologically and need their meds changed frequently; still others do good for a while, but then start thinking that the med in question is the solution to their problems-not a unified approach of medication, better decision making processes, monitoring, etc...and they start making things worse because they abdicate responsibility for their lives.

I also, and this not meant to be an indictment of you personally but rather relaying my own experiences, have seen plenty of people who malinger, and abuse QMHP provided meds. Welbutrin can be ground up and snorted apparently, with some interesting effects. I see a lot of pill trading and selling. (I never got trading pills-man the idea that someone might slip you something would just frighten me.)

My own advice would be don't treat the pill like it's the magic bullet, but rather treat it as part of a comprehensive approach to making your life better.

Bonefish · Post by **Bonefish** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:47 pm

Serious Paul wrote:
My own advice would be don't treat the pill like it's the magic bullet, but rather treat it as part of a comprehensive approach to making your life better.

Yup. I mean, currently, it helps a ton to keep me from worrying too much about little shit(or big shit, like my momma), but I don't think it's a permanent cure-all. I've got a shrink appointment on friday, and I'm going to try to schedule regular counseling to help me get better.

One of the doctors at the Mental place, he was really adamant about me going to a 28 day rehab program, which I was pissed about because it would fuck up my career(UPS has a program that pays for your rehab, 100%, but after that, you're placed on a list for random drug screening). It's not so much the random drug screening that worries me, but the threat to my long-term future at the company: if I try to go for a promotion later on, which requires recommendations from my higher-ups, well, being an "addict" could negatively influence their decision making process.

I understand that self-medicating with drugs and alcohol is not a good decision, and I've made a concerted effort to stay off alcohol(going on 9 days sober), as when I look back on it, the bad times definitely outweigh the good. And it seems like very time I've done self-mutilation or had really strong suicidal thoughts, it's been while drinking. So, done with the booze.

Marijuana, I'm not as sold on it. I don't tend to smoke as much as I did, due to a few factors: my bosses told me if they think I'm high when I come into work, they'll drug test me and fire me, and getting high before work was really the only time I had to get high. Why not after work? Well, my after-work free time is filled with playing battlefield 3, and when I'm high, my game goes all to shit. So it pretty much became a social/weekend activity.

And that leads me to wonder: If I am laying off the pot because it could get me fired, and because I'd rather play a video-game... am I really addicted to it?

3278 · Post by **3278** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:15 pm

Medication can make a big difference; it can, if nothing else, hold the walls while you can marshal your forces. It doesn't [typically] solve your problems, but it lets you stop using all your energy just to get by, and start using your energy to move forward. As long as you view it that way - as a tool to help accomplish part of your goals - it's hugely helpful.

Random advice: get on something, and stay on it until your doctor changes it. Don't change your doses, or stop-start, or anything like that: this stuff is in ur head, changing ur chemistry, and fucking with it can leave you worse than you started.

Bonefish wrote:And that leads me to wonder: If I am laying off the pot because it could get me fired, and because I'd rather play a video-game... am I really addicted to it?

Doesn't really mean anything, one way or the other. You can be addicted to something and still give it up for something else. But I think probably it's not marijuana you're addicted to, but escape, little doses of pleasure to distract you from the fact that you're not getting enough pleasure. I think it's probably pleasure you're addicted to, and the video games, sex, booze and drugs are just tools you use to get it. But I'm definitely not a qualified mental health provider.

WillyGilligan · Post by **WillyGilligan** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:01 pm

3278 wrote:Doesn't really mean anything, one way or the other. You can be addicted to something and still give it up for something else. But I think probably it's not marijuana you're addicted to, but escape, little doses of pleasure to distract you from the fact that you're not getting enough pleasure. I think it's probably pleasure you're addicted to, and the video games, sex, booze and drugs are just tools you use to get it. But I'm definitely not a qualified mental health provider.

Funny enough, I'm reading this book called The Power of Habit and it talks a bit about this. Some of it I've already heard, but it packages it all neatly and gives some of the scientific proof for things that I "know" as received wisdom. Like the above, but more in the vein that you have some feedback loop based on boredom or pleasure seeking with the habit loop involving a cue that you associate with weed that satisfies the underlying craving. It's a good read so far, I recommend it.

Marius · Post by **Marius** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:58 am

Interestingly, a lot of people experience those activating effects of Wellbutrin as mildly agitating and fairly uncomfortable. That's one of the reasons it is generally thought of as not particularly good for anxiety.

sinsual · Post by **sinsual** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:14 am

Bonefish wrote: And that leads me to wonder: If I am laying off the pot because it could get me fired, and because I'd rather play a video-game... am I really addicted to it?

A normal person who is not an addict does not do controlled smoking/drinking/using. They do not wonder "do I have a problem"

Do the Rehab and go through your employee assistance at UPS.

You do not have to explain to anyone why you went. If UPS even THINKS about holding you back when you have earned the promotion, LAWSUIT. That is a violation of your HIPPA rights since you were under a doctor's care while out.

So you do randoms, if your not using or drinking, then who cares about a random?

Your other option to explore, if the 28 day program is not that conducive, your Employee Assistance program can set you up with an Intensive Out Patient that meets 3 days a week for 3 hours at a time.

I too am on Wellbutrin, and I love the calming effect. Anger just doesn't rage up so fast, and with the tools I learned in IOP, it is like a whole new life rolled out in front of me.

Bonefish · Post by **Bonefish** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:48 am

I'm not going to the rehab. Period. And while you may say that UPS can't hold me back or face a lawsuit... well, it's kind of hard to prove why they pass me up for a promotion, as it can come down to something as simple as my divisional manager not liking me.

But the Wellbutrin is working nicely. I missed a dose yesterday, and had a bit of an anger fit at work. Gotta avoid that.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:14 pm

Bonefish wrote:I'm not going to the rehab. Period. And while you may say that UPS can't hold me back or face a lawsuit... well, it's kind of hard to prove why they pass me up for a promotion, as it can come down to something as simple as my divisional manager not liking me.

A lot of addiction doesn't get treated for exactly this reason. It sucks, but anything other than alcoholism has such a stigma attached to it that a lot of people don't get the help they need because it would cost them too much socially or professionally. There are anonymous solutions, but they're typically expensive or just inconvenient, and addicts typically don't manage either of those things very well.

Bonefish wrote:But the Wellbutrin is working nicely. I missed a dose yesterday, and had a bit of an anger fit at work. Gotta avoid that.

And since you will miss doses, the only way to avoid it is to remember what will happen when you do, and be extra-careful to manage your emotions. You still have to be responsible for your behavior, not the medication. It's hard.

Nicephorus · Post by **Nicephorus** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:53 pm

3278 wrote:And since you will miss doses, the only way to avoid it is to remember what will happen when you do, and be extra-careful to manage your emotions. You still have to be responsible for your behavior, not the medication. It's hard.

Along those lines, when you are about to fly off the handle, take a moment to ask yourself. Is the situation or is it just a chemical situation in your head? When my wife gest really anxious about something, I point out to her that she missed a dose and it's just her brain having excess worry looking for a something to be worried about. The change in attribution seems to help.

Kurt Vonnegut defined insanity something like bad chemicals looking for a bad idea. I think he was onto something.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:02 pm

Nicephorus wrote:Along those lines, when you are about to fly off the handle, take a moment to ask yourself. Is the situation or is it just a chemical situation in your head?

That's exactly how I think of it, and not just for aggression, and not just for missed doses. It helps keep me level in a number of situations...provided I remember to raise that flag in the moment, which I don't always do.

Nicephorus wrote:When my wife gest really anxious about something, I point out to her that she missed a dose and it's just her brain having excess worry looking for a something to be worried about. The change in attribution seems to help.

Worked for us during pregnancy - never at any other time, but I took what I could get - but you've also got to have a partner who trusts you to be their reality check, even when they're not quite themselves.

sinsual · Post by **sinsual** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:45 am

Bonefish wrote:I'm not going to the rehab. Period. And while you may say that UPS can't hold me back or face a lawsuit... well, it's kind of hard to prove why they pass me up for a promotion, as it can come down to something as simple as my divisional manager not liking me.
.

First, as ThreeTwo pointed out, that is the thinking that got you where you are.

Second, if you go to IOP, as long as you do not tell a co-worker, the insurance legally can not tell your employer.

Third and most importantly, it is only a job. I get that it is UPS, and a career choice your looking at and have decided it is the end all be all must have job. It isn't. Now your going to argue, your going to tell me I don't know what I am talking about, your going to give me every excuse in the book as to WHY losing your job or a promotion or any other such reason to justify TO YOURSELF what the right path is.

WillyGilligan · Post by **WillyGilligan** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:47 pm

The real question is whether your drug use is going to hold you back more than the potential risks of dealing with the problem. If you avoid going to rehab because your career will take a big hit, is the avoidance of that risk worth the risk that your drug use will get out of control enough for you to do something else that could lose you the job? And as the user, can you trust your own assessment of that risk?

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:11 pm

And here I was thinking the real damned question is when we cut out his kidney's and sell them will we use a Coleman cooler, or one of those softpaks....Damn priorities are all...fuxxored....

sinsual · Post by **sinsual** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:53 am

Serious Paul wrote:And here I was thinking the real damned question is when we cut out his kidney's and sell them will we use a Coleman cooler, or one of those softpaks....Damn priorities are all...fuxxored....

I vote softpak, they fit in the hard bags on my bike.

Bonefish · Post by **Bonefish** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:42 pm

1 month without any alcohol. I feel pretty good about myself.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:21 pm

That's great! How do you feel?

Bonefish · Post by **Bonefish** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:29 pm

Pretty good. Still smoke pot, but it's not an all the time thing. Don't feel the urge to drink, I don't even miss it. Well, sometimes.

sinsual · Post by **sinsual** » Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:07 am

Good on you Bone!