Bikes vs. Cars

[Bonefish]

Ok, some of you on my facebook*, know that I've been driving a car lately. On interstates and shit, too. And well, I feel fairly confident to say: I hate cars. Sorry.

There is a fundamental difference between riding a bike(aka a motocycle/scooter) and driving a car, and that's Situational Awareness. When I'm on a bike, I know exactly where I'm at, and I know where I can go. When I'm driving a car, I feel like I'm more disconnected, less aware of my own footprint.

There's also a completely different level of responsibility, I think. When you're wrapped around a steel frame, you know that a slight fuck up could have you hitting the ground(done it!), while when you're in a car, you know that you'll come out of most things ok. And with a Bike, you're less worried about what you will do to someone else, and more worried with what could happen to you. Strangely, I feel that very juxtoposition makes you more aware and careful on a bike, while a car gives you a bit more lee way, and makes you a bit less careful.

I know that, in my personal experience, I prefer the bike over the car. I feel much more secure and confident on a bike, rather than in a car.

So, whattaya think?



*IF you ain't on my Facebook, WHY THE FUCK NOT?!

[3278]

I absolutely comprehend your perception. I feel much the same way about convertibles, or my Jeep [which is a giant glass box, with extraordinary visibility], particularly if you take its doors and hatch off. But neither of these things compare to being outside, the way you are on a bike. Mind you, I've never ridden a real motorcycle, but I was a cyclist for many years, and I've been on scooters and such, so I definitely see where you're coming from.

That said, you live in a place where a bike is a more functional mode of transportation than it is up here. I'd love to get a bike - a dual-purpose, or Enduro, most likely - but I'd only be able to use it half the year, at best. And I hear there are a couple of safety issues with riding motorcycles, as well; my father - who rode motorcycles through much of his teens and 20s - has asked me to let him know when I get my motorcycle license, so he can take out life insurance on me, so Ana won't go broke when I die. There are also...certain compromises in terms of comfort and cargo space.

Still, I very much love the feeling of being in the world, and not separate from it. If you want Long Way Round, they talk about this being one of their major inspirations for using bikes and not cars.

Each device, I think, has its own purpose, its own role. I couldn't get by, in my life, without a "car" of one sort or another, but I would very much like to have a motorcycle to complement it.

[Raygun]

My dad used to ride a Kawasaki F11 250 to work every day and did so for years until he was sitting at a light one morning, got rear-ended and knocked right into the middle of the intersection, narrowly missing being pasted by oncoming traffic. He drove the bike home, parked it in the garage, fixed it up and promptly sold it. He also took the time to sit me down and tell me that one day I'd be interested in motorcycles, and that that story is why I shouldn't entertain the idea of driving one. On the street, anyway. And now I live in Montana, otherwise known as motorcycle heaven (but like 32 said, for half the year at best). An ATV seems like a more practical investment here, though.

*IF you ain't on my Facebook, WHY THE FUCK NOT?!

Because FUCK FACEBOOK. This is as social as I get.

[SumDumQuim]

I know you, you are better left un-facebooked. I don't think you should be forced upon the world.

I get into/on something that has wheels on it and I sit down. I get out/off of said wheeled thing and I am where I want/need to be. The end. It is a means of getting to where I am going. Other than sitting on a filthy bus I could care less what it is.

[3278]

An ATV seems like a more practical investment here, though.

For fun, I often work on mentally designing a vehicle that is the combination of the best qualities of motorcycles, go-carts, and cars: essentially, a one-person car with full-size automobile parts, very small and very light, which can be optionally driven with little enclosure. It's not unreasonable to imagine something like a Formula One car, only smaller, and slower, and with a roof you can close.

But it occurs to me that a similarly-sized vehicle could be made to be something like the best qualities of dirt bike, four-wheeler, and SUV. Hmm.

[Raygun]

I know you, you are better left un-facebooked. I don't think you should be forced upon the world.

If only most of the people on Facebook felt the same way.

... Wait.

An ATV seems like a more practical investment here, though.

For fun, I often work on mentally designing a vehicle that is the combination of the best qualities of motorcycles, go-carts, and cars: essentially, a one-person car with full-size automobile parts, very small and very light, which can be optionally driven with little enclosure. It's not unreasonable to imagine something like a Formula One car, only smaller, and slower, and with a roof you can close.

But. But then you lose that bit of excitement that comes from the possibility of really fucking up and having ~500 pounds of ATV land on your neck!

You mean like a single-seat Ariel Atom where the wind isn't necessarily trying to tear your face off?

[Nicephorus]

An ATV seems like a more practical investment here, though.

For fun, I often work on mentally designing a vehicle that is the combination of the best qualities of motorcycles, go-carts, and cars: essentially, a one-person car with full-size automobile parts, very small and very light, which can be optionally driven with little enclosure. It's not unreasonable to imagine something like a Formula One car, only smaller, and slower, and with a roof you can close.

But it occurs to me that a similarly-sized vehicle could be made to be something like the best qualities of dirt bike, four-wheeler, and SUV. Hmm.

You could go make a dune buggy a bit smaller than this.


or this



Machine guns optional.

http://kitup.military.com/2010/11/imint ... dune-buggy

I think that I've seen military prototypes that are even smaller, <4' high, <7 long, two people max. You might be able toy start with a go cart and give it a dune buggy suspension.

if you really wanna be cool off road:


(When I googled light scouting vehicle, 1/3 were lego, another 1/3 were from minis games.)

[SumDumQuim]

Nicie made it over :clappy hands:!!

[Raygun]

You could go make a dune buggy a bit smaller than this.


or this



Machine guns optional.

Nooooo. Machine guns mandatory! This reminds me, I saw a company a while back that made a pintle mount for the Barrett M82A1 for ATVs, so you could tool around with a giant-ass rifle on the back of your ATV if you want. The thing was mounted right at shoulder height so you could hop off the ATV, walk up behind it, unlock the rifle from its stowed state, and blast away as necessary.

http://kitup.military.com/2010/11/imint ... dune-buggy

That's cool. I wonder who makes those. I like this one, too.

[Iantha]

I am not on your facebook Bone.

As for bikes and cars, I don't prefer one over the other. If I had no child to ferry to school every day, I would ride my bike to work, even in the winter. However, I really love my Audi and I really love being able to take Cecilia to school in a much safer way than biking in. I like being able to keep her warm and dry and safe on the way in. Biking through town, even a few miles, still makes me a little nervous at her age.

It just depends on what I want to use each for.

[3278]

You mean like a single-seat Ariel Atom where the wind isn't necessarily trying to tear your face off?

Exactly. I was really excited when I first saw the Atom because, while it was very different in execution, it was very similar in concept to what I'd been working on: the idea of stripping away everything unnecessary, if nothing else. So much of what makes up a modern car isn't necessary to the business of getting down the road.

This is one of the ways in which cars and bikes are very, very different, and one of the reasons bikes are so much quicker than cars. Where their handling reaches its limits, though, is in traction, to stop, corner, or accelerate. A very light car has the strengths of both.

You could go make a dune buggy a bit smaller than this.

When I was growing up - not so much now - it was very, very common to see buggies very similar to this, though obviously civilian. While the idea of the "frame buggy" is fairly common here - because of the dunes on Lake Michigan - some of these frame buggies [or sand rails, depending on where you live in the country] were modified to omit all of the full-travel suspension stuff and balloony tires that made them good dune buggies. They'd run normal road tires on normal road wheels, put in standard road shocks and springs, and you've got a car that weighs next-to-nothing and is extremely simple - most of these were powered by air-cooled Volkswagen engines, some of which could be quite powerful - that loses its off-road-ability in exchange for superior road handling.

So I grew up seeing these things, and I guess I've always wondered why there isn't a more sophisticated version that nevertheless keeps the minimalist ideals of the "road buggy." Something enclosed and aerodynamic, but with minimal creature comforts and very little extraneous material. And that doesn't have to mean "loud and hot:" basic concessions can be made to driver comfort without getting into luxuries. Certainly it can be made more comfortable than a motorbike.

You might be able toy start with a go cart and give it a dune buggy suspension.

And of course that's the other direction you could come at it from - if you were building one out of parts of something else - which would be to take a kart frame and put road car parts on it. I guess the problem with this is that the frame itself just isn't meant for the appropriate strain.

So what to do? Well, if a buggy frame is too big, and a kart frame is too weak, the answer is simply that you have to build your own frame, and add parts to it. That's not so bad: that's all a frame buggy is, after all. It can even be done pretty cheaply, on the order of a few thousand bucks, all-in, depending on how you do it. And you could even make a one-man frame buggy enclosed, too, with canvas or steel or fiberglass [in increasing order of "good idea"].

Of course, I'd want to start from scratch, designing the shell around the frame around the components: something more sophisticated than just basic 70s parts on a steel frame. More sophisticated than the Atom, even; something between an Atom and an Evo. I could pretty easily just rob a Subaru parts bin for almost everything I'd want, except engine. I'd have to cut a lot of axles and driveshafts down, though...

[3278]

And on the offroad side, something like this would be excellent. I'd love something one-man, and tightly-enclosed. Like, if you get into an SUV [like my Cherokee] and look around when no one else is in it, you think, what the hell, what's all this stuff for? Why not make it half as wide, and half as long? Leave some cargo space in the back, maybe with a bench seat that can fold out of that space. Suddenly, those brakes and that engine are dealing with radically less inertia: you're reducing the vehicle's weight by something like 1/2 to 2/3, depending on the efficiency of your size reduction.

Use some of that spare weight to strengthen the passenger cell. Use portal gears - to eliminate axles - [and raise the tire size and increase suspension travel] and gain a huge amount of ground clearance; use some of that spare ground clearance to lower the passenger cell in relation to the ground: basically, anything short of having the passenger compartment as low as your differentials were before is a net gain. This offsets the effect of having your vehicle half as wide but the same height.

You'd end up with something between a lifted SUV and a four-wheeler. Want.

[Salvation122]

You'd end up with something between a lifted SUV and a four-wheeler.

[3278]

Smaller, smaller! Smaller than a Suzuki Samurai!

My daughter, Anastasia, wants a Wrangler as her first car. I keep trying to encourage her to drive a Cherokee, instead - they're ever-so-slightly safer - but to no avail. I'm really looking forward to us having both a Cherokee and a Wrangler, which pretty much covers all your SUV needs, unless your SUV needs include carrying more than 4 man-weeks of supplies, for which I'd like the new 4-door Wrangler.

[paladin2019]

http://kitup.military.com/2010/11/imint ... dune-buggy

Looks like a modified Gator to me. Something like this: http://www.deere.com/en_US/contractsale ... gator.html


I could deal with the Wrangler.

[Raygun]

http://kitup.military.com/2010/11/imint ... dune-buggy

Looks like a modified Gator to me.

I think it's a Polaris RZR SW.

Here you go, 32. Someone (Rhino Offroad) was apparently thinking along the same lines as you at some point (though no portal axles). They apparently made a single-seat frame, two-seat tandem, two-seat side-by-side, and a four-seat frame.





This thing looks awesome, too. Custom build, though.