The Death of Animalball

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:07 pm

Huh, it was just up a few days ago. I'll have to ask Mike or Kyle.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:33 pm

I'm going to stab them in the face. I keep needing to look shit up there, and it's gone. No bueno.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:36 am

And that includes a huge volume of fiction writing, too, now that I think about it, that doesn't exist anywhere else. Not good.

Heavy_D · Post by **Heavy_D** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:10 am

Are they not able to send you a backup of their database? Maybe that would allow you to extract the things you wrote.

Brasky · Post by **Brasky** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:16 pm

The site is gone. I got tired of paying for it for an archive, so I let it expire.

I have database backups, but I'm not gong to be giving those to anyone. Mike and I have talked about him hosting an archive copy on his website. We'll see.

If it pisses you off that you didn't find the time to copy and paste your stuff off of it in the last year, then stab me in the fucking face. Your problems are all my fault.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:40 pm

Brasky wrote:I have database backups, but I'm not gong to be giving those to anyone. Mike and I have talked about him hosting an archive copy on his website. We'll see.

I definitely hope he does that: there's a lot of stuff there that I'd like to have access to at least once, from both forums.

Brasky wrote:If it pisses you off that you didn't find the time to copy and paste your stuff off of it in the last year, then stab me in the fucking face. Your problems are all my fault.

Well, I was kind of joking around, so I hope you are, too, but I did inquire about this, several times, and was told that nothing would be done with either forum until people had a chance to get what was theirs, so yeah, I'm a bit put out. This isn't the first time this has happened to me, see, so that's why I asked several times. Now, if I hadn't been told that nothing would happen until people had a chance to get what was theirs, then I'd have taken the time to extract what I needed then, but since I was told it wouldn't be a problem, I didn't.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:04 am

When you said inquire, I thought you meant road trip with a pair of scissors to stab him in the face. So. Dis. Appoint. Ed.

Jeff Hauze · Post by **Jeff Hauze** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:22 am

Serious Paul wrote:When you said inquire, I thought you meant road trip with a pair of scissors to stab him in the face. So. Dis. Appoint. Ed.

There's no Centralia that way. He only makes road trips when he can find burning mines enroute.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:11 pm

Mmm. Although if that's what it took, I'd gladly drive to Nebraska to get the archive. This is deeply troubling to me.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Tue May 01, 2012 1:45 am

Does anyone have any suggestions for polite and politic methods of inquiring about this issue? I'm kind of at my wits' end in terms of how to take care of this without just pissing off everyone involved.

Also, does this never bother anyone else? Like, when forums go away and everything disappears? This happened to me on Dumpshock, and then when Ezboard lost Bulldrek v0.2, and then Underworld 93, and then both Animalballs, and it's just crushing every time it happens. All that history, all those people and the things they said, all the effort expended, all the artistic expression, just gone in an eyeblink. Am I the only person gnashing their teeth over this?

Bonefish · Post by **Bonefish** » Tue May 01, 2012 5:54 pm

It kind of bothers me, a little. Then I just shrug. you know how many drawings and paintings and other forms of my artistic expression I've lost over the years? Countless... But, it's just the way of the world.

Salvation122 · Post by **Salvation122** » Wed May 02, 2012 11:27 pm

3278 wrote:Does anyone have any suggestions for polite and politic methods of inquiring about this issue? I'm kind of at my wits' end in terms of how to take care of this without just pissing off everyone involved.

Also, does this never bother anyone else? Like, when forums go away and everything disappears? This happened to me on Dumpshock, and then when Ezboard lost Bulldrek v0.2, and then Underworld 93, and then both Animalballs, and it's just crushing every time it happens. All that history, all those people and the things they said, all the effort expended, all the artistic expression, just gone in an eyeblink. Am I the only person gnashing their teeth over this?

There are maybe two or three dozen posts that I really really really wish I'd copied over. It does kind of sadden me when stuff like this just slips away.

Raygun · Post by **Raygun** » Thu May 03, 2012 8:17 am

Eh. Stuff dies. You don't get to take it with you. Just gotta let it go.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Thu May 03, 2012 4:12 pm

Maybe it's that sinking feeling I had when I learned about Alexandria as a child, that idea that this tremendous volume of knowledge died, lost, eliminated forever, plunging an entire sector of the globe into centuries of ignorance and darkness. Certainly nothing any of us have ever seen on a forum compares to so great a loss, but I've always been an archivist, preserving and gathering knowledge for its own sake. To see someone just turn it off, like a switch, is like watching someone disconnect your friends from the Matrix: this helpless, hopeless feeling that something you cared deeply about is lost.

There's a Zen view that would pain me less, a view of sand sculptures, of butter sculptures, of the impermanence of all things, but I've invested probably tens of thousands of hours over the last decade, poured heart and soul into my work time and time and time again, and then discover it's just gone, just nothing, and I'm largely faced with apathy, bewilderment, bemusement.

Write a novel. Let a hundred people read it, and then have someone destroy every single copy, never to be read again. You'd hurt, wouldn't you? But that's maybe 40,000 words, maybe some months of your life. I've written 1.35 million words, on Bulldrek v1.0 alone! That's longer than the longest novel [Proust's In Search of Lost Time], longer than every Harry Potter book put together. And that's on a single forum: I've likely written something more like 3-4 million words online in the last decade, and nearly all of them are, poof, gone.

And not just mine: at the same time I'm writing my hundred novels, I'm reading another thousand, many by the smartest, funniest, most interesting people I've ever encountered. Volumes upon volumes, an entire library of brilliance and foolishness, friends and enemies, stories and circumstance, and now it's all gone. Deep Resonance. Dumpshock. Bulldrek v0.2. Underworld 93. Animalball the first, and Animalball the second. Maybe it's not Alexandria, but when it comes down to the time, effort, and effect, it genuinely is burning down an entire library, and worse, an entire library full of only copies.

Mike, Kyle, I'm begging: don't burn these last books in your possession. Set them free, replicate them, so these kinds of tragedies don't happen again. There won't be a Dark Age if you let them burn, no, but there will be a profound loss, nevertheless.

Jeff Hauze · Post by **Jeff Hauze** » Fri May 04, 2012 3:20 am

Raygun wrote:Eh. Stuff dies. You don't get to take it with you. Just gotta let it go.

So you're giving up your guns then?

Raygun · Post by **Raygun** » Fri May 04, 2012 4:35 am

Oh, I've given up more than things in my life. Guns would be pretty easy, all things considered. I wasn't trying to minimize what access to that data means to anyone else. I was only answering for myself.

Bonefish · Post by **Bonefish** » Fri May 04, 2012 6:59 am

I think I might understand Ray's line of thinking: everything does, ultimately, die or become severed from you at some point. Whether it's people or ideas, the loss does hurt, but it happens. You can't really dwell on things that, outside of your control, too much, because the past is done.

You could have written this stuff down, or saved it to a hard drive, or whatever. And something could still take it from you at any given point. Leaving you at square one. So whatever you do keep? It's that little bit more valuable.

Jeff Hauze · Post by **Jeff Hauze** » Fri May 04, 2012 5:53 pm

Raygun wrote:Oh, I've given up more than things in my life.

I always knew that you were the inspiration for Breaking Bad.

Raygun · Post by **Raygun** » Fri May 04, 2012 6:34 pm

One of these days, I'm going to have to watch that show. It's been in my Netflix queue for months.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Fri May 04, 2012 6:34 pm

Bonefish wrote:You could have written this stuff down, or saved it to a hard drive, or whatever. And something could still take it from you at any given point.

Well, if I'd known it was going to be taken offline, this is exactly what I'd have done - although how I'd have ripped everything I wanted off those sites is some other question entirely - but when I asked Mike and Kyle, I was told Animalball's forums wouldn't be taken offline without us being given the chance to recover our information.

But that wasn't really your point: your point is that I still could have lost it. Except when I archive data, I keep multiple copies in multiple locations, which is indeed the reason this forum exists at all. [If you recall, this site died once upon a time, and had to be manually pieced together from the databases of three different forums; I take my role as your preserver very, very seriously.]

But even then, yeah, absolutely, a perfect storm could take it all. And while I agree it's not best to dwell on what's lost, this isn't lost. This is like someone stole my car: it still exists, and if they'd give it back I could have it. Isn't it worth dwelling if there's still a chance of recovery?

Kai · Post by **Kai** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:39 am

I have nothing but love for ya, Bethy, honest

Kyle can die in a fire, but you were always cordial, and tried to help, and still have the setting I've had the most fun making stuff up for, heh.

I occasionally remember Bulldrek exists, but my time is spend doing so much else these days I even less occasionally actually log in. (I am really glad to see the Account Switch is still working though, because I *still* had to log in as Wildfire and switch to Kai....I should fix that to use an email I've actually had sometime in the last, oh, 6? 7? years?)

I do internet radio DJing for The Cape in City of Heroes. I'm playing Diablo 3. I'm finding cool stuff on Diaspora (I'm _kai_ on Diasp.org if you care). I'm prepping for The Secret World. I am absolutely loving collaborative fiction via Google Docs. I'm still getting used to life on the wrong coast. I'm making arrows and SCA garb and learning the bass guitar. I'm turning a pair of nerf guns into EL wire powered 'tesla' guns. I'm coming to terms with the fact that I have Labor Day weekend to myself for the first time in 6 years because I'm not running Shadowrun's tables at Dragon*Con.

Bulldrek is kinda a nice thing to look back on, I still have logs from #sr2051, some story stuff Eliahad and I did, heck the phpBB mods I wrote for Bulldrek helped land me my first job as a web programmer, but I'm not the same person I was then and the things that were important then I look at and wonder why I was so worked up about half of them, heh.

I do occasionally remember to come look around, I will try to remember to do it more than once or twice every couple months though, but feel free to pester me on Diaspora, or via PM.

Salvation122 · Post by **Salvation122** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:45 pm

Oh holy shit Diaspora finally went live? BRB closing Facebook (again)

Kai · Post by **Kai** » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:48 am

Technically its beta-ish, but its out there on about 30 pods or so and doing well and nobody damn well cares that my real name isn't Kai

sinsual · Post by **sinsual** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:51 am

KAI!!!!!

Wait...

Where in Carmen San Diego are you now?

Good to see you around again!

Raygun · Post by **Raygun** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:10 am

Jeff Hauze wrote:
Raygun wrote:Oh, I've given up more than things in my life.
I always knew that you were the inspiration for Breaking Bad.

That's a good show!

Now to whip up some crystal meth. While listening to Gwar.

Kai · Post by **Kai** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:24 am

Heya Sin! Vegas these days, how about you?

sinsual · Post by **sinsual** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:30 pm

Kai wrote:Heya Sin! Vegas these days, how about you?

Damn, I stay about 5 hours away from you yet again :-)

Phoenix

Sadly, my in-law's just sold their house back in February, so we don't go up as often anymore.

Been here almost 8 years now.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:29 pm

3278 wrote:But even then, yeah, absolutely, a perfect storm could take it all. And while I agree it's not best to dwell on what's lost, this isn't lost. This is like someone stole my car: it still exists, and if they'd give it back I could have it. Isn't it worth dwelling if there's still a chance of recovery?

God damn it. Three times in the last two weeks I needed - okay, wanted - access to one of the Animalball forums. I can't believe this doesn't happen to everyone else, all the time.

Salvation122 · Post by **Salvation122** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:22 pm

It's happened to me on a couple of occasions. I find myself really wishing I had copies of my post explaining Citizens United and eviscerating the argument that the income tax is unconstitutional on a not-infrequent basis.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:20 am

I just don't understand why they didn't just lock the boards - as they'd done with the first board - and leave them on the server. I know they switched servers, but so what? It's easy to migrate them over, and I only offered my assistance, like, 14 million times. I just don't get it.

Sometimes I mention it to Kyle, but he never replies. I haven't seen Mike in a long while, but it'd be the first thing I brought up after small talk. Has anyone else ever gotten a more useful response?

Nicephorus · Post by **Nicephorus** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:35 am

I can understand trying to have a cleaner image but I dunno why they didn't just lock it and make all posts visible to members only. Maybe they wanted to be doubly sure no one could use anything against them but I think it was overkill.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:05 am

I wish I could get Kyle over here to comment, but registration on Bulldrek is currently...complicated. I've actually got a pile of people I think would be interesting to add, but spammers have made the process significantly more troublesome than I feel is valuable.

SumDumQuim · Post by **SumDumQuim** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:04 pm

Just reading through this made me ragey. I need to unfriend Kyle on Facebook again.