Cars, Part III

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:00 am

About 2 weeks ago, I bought a 2002 Audi A6 2.7L BiTurbo with only about 66,000 miles on the odometer. I continue to be amazed at the amount of technology in this car. I think it may actually be smarter than I am. I got a great deal on it (about $5,000 less than Blue Book). This will be my daily driver when I turn my truck in next month at the end of its lease.

Bishop · Post by **Bishop** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:59 pm

I hate you, a little bit.

Marius · Post by **Marius** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:06 am

Yeah, that's a pretty nice score.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:09 pm

I should give an update on mine. I replaced the thermostat because it had stuck shut, then replaced a hose that had blown out while the temperature was too high. The replacement thermostat started sticking shut, leading me to believe it was probably something external to the thermostat; the most likely culprit is the very cold winter, plus the lack of an intervening air conditioning radiator and cooling fan shroud, keeping the aluminum thermostat housing very cold and not allowing it to pop open.

I've since removed the thermostat, but engine behavior has seriously deteriorated since then. Because the engine can never warm up, it never fits together properly, and extra explosion leaks out around the seals; for a few minutes while the car warms up, this is okay, but for hours on end it's not good. The engine now surges at idle, from 1000 RPM to 2000RPM and back. I'm considering taking the air box and idle air control sensors off, and just letting the engine intake be unfiltered, like a 70s Ferrari, and see how that goes. What's the worst that could happen?

I've lost the back half of my shift pattern, leaving me with R, 1, 3, and 5, which isn't really that bad, except it won't always come out of fifth, or reliably go into reverse or first. It's been like this for a couple of months. Still, it's better than the six weeks I spent driving without being able to depress the clutch pedal, so I'm really not that troubled.

The car should only need to last me another month, at most, and even if it dies before then I have backup options, so it's all very no-stress now. I'll drive it 'til it comes apart, and then I'll drive another one just like it. Except with a limited-slip differential and a performance [rather than economy] head. Or a convertible top. Not sure which.

Liniah · Post by **Liniah** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:21 pm

Why does it only need to last you another month?

My car has been making horrible noises, however they're apparently harmless. I guess my car just does not like being cold. I did have to sink $250 into it...great surprise last oil change. I had to replace a belt and filter. Better $250 now rather than more later, I suppose. In two months my car will no longer be used as a commuter vehicle to and from work daily. Unfortunately, it will be parked curb-side in the city, rather than in a parking lot in the suburbs.

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:07 pm

Liniah wrote:Why does it only need to last you another month?

My car has been making horrible noises, however they're apparently harmless. I guess my car just does not like being cold. I did have to sink $250 into it...great surprise last oil change. I had to replace a belt and filter. Better $250 now rather than more later, I suppose. In two months my car will no longer be used as a commuter vehicle to and from work daily. Unfortunately, it will be parked curb-side in the city, rather than in a parking lot in the suburbs.

Did you have your belt and filter replaced at an oil change shop (e.g. Valvoline Instant Oil, Jiffy Lube, etc.)? Although it's possible they weren't trying to "upsell" you, my experience is that those place charge far more for things like serpentine belts, fuel filters, air intake filters and the like than a standard mechanics shop. They are also notorious for trying to sell you those things when you don't really need them. Most of the time they try to sell you an air intake filter, which they charge about $30-$50 or more for. You can usually purchase one for around $10 at a parts store and install it yourself in about 10 minutes.

Belts are harder, but I'd never get one installed by an oil change shop.

Liniah · Post by **Liniah** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:19 pm

It was a serpentine belt and transmission filter, iirc. I think I was leaking fluid, and they said the belt was worn as well as cracked. It was not at a chain place and I had my dad talk to the guy before I got it done. I think I've only ever been to a chain place once since I've been a car owner. This guy was chosen cause I could walk there from my apartment. However, my dad has since been there and thinks the guy is fine. It's funny- I've found the past two mechanics that my dad has ended up going to. My dad used to do his own car work when I was little, but now that they have the money not to he always takes it to a mechanic. He can do a lot of work on cars, but does not enjoy it.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:59 pm

Liniah wrote:Why does it only need to last you another month?

Oh! 'Cause I'm buying another one. Just like the one I have, more or less; I have an '86 325e, but I'd prefer a 325ic [convertible, and without economy head] or 325is [limited slip differential, and without economy head]. And I'll take any 325 from my car's generation, and under just the right circumstances, maybe even a newer one, but they're not my cup of tea.

Crazy Elf · Post by **Crazy Elf** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:41 am

In order to generate discussion, last Christmas after the Ninja and I landed from our round the world trip, we started driving from Sydney to Brisbane. That is, for those of you that are unfamiliar with the Australian landscape, a long fucking way. About a third of the way there the car makes a loud clunking noise, and I realise that the fan belt is off. I open the hood (luckily I was just starting it up after having filled it up with petrol), and find that the bolt that holds the pulley for the alternator in place has gone. Like completely gone. It's graunched the entire shaft, too, so that even if we did have it, it wouldn't just slide back into place.

We call someone to help, he says there's no way to get an alternator on Christmas day. I say fuck. He says yep. I say, "How about we jury rig the thing?" He says, "That's fucking crazy, let's do it."

We end up getting it set up with some battery caps and glue, and then away we go. It holds for around 60kms, and then it's all fucked again. Luckily it's fucked up right near a petrol station. I pull in and check what's happened, and find that the battery caps have burnt through, which is no real surprise. I go into the petrol station and find some radiator seal apoxy stuff that is supposed to dry like steel. I take it to the car, and start moulding it into place to hold the pulley in place. Twenty minutes later we're off again. It hold for, get this, 200kms before it blows up right next to a fucking hotel, and we sleep the night. The next morning we make a few calls and get a new alternator, and make it to the fucking gig. However, I now carry a tube of that metal apoxy stuff, because it's fucking awesome! You can fix pretty much anything with it, and it can probably end lives in a particularly horrible way.

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:46 pm

Here's an update on my Audi:

When I got it home from the dealership, I noticed it had a wiggle in the back end whenever you'd drive over a pothole or joint in the pavement. The dealer I bought the car from said they replaced the rear sway bar bushings before they put the car on the sales floor. The car had the most thorough and up-to-date service record of any car I'd ever bought.

I took the car to the Audi dealer to diagnose the problem. They said the rear sway bar bushings were bad...the ones that supposedly had just been replaced. So I had them do that repair ($180). When I got the car back, it did the same thing. I took it back to the dealership...they had a mechanic ride with me. Today I got the car back and they said it needs new rear shocks ($885). Not only that, but during the previous service visit, they said that my front control arms, ball joints and tie rod ends are bad ($1600). On top of all that, I had them fix a problem with the stereo wiring, that was caused from the previous owner's aftermarket stereo, which had been converted back to stock before I bought it.

So here's my repair cost so far:

Radio Wiring Problem: $500
Rear Sway Bar Bushings: $180

3278 and my neighbor are going to do the rear shocks ourselves: $279 + $52 for a professional alignment.

I also need new tires before winter: $500 or so

Next spring I'll do the ball joints, control arms and tie rod ends: $609 in parts + alignment.

The funny thing is that I bought an extended warranty when I purchased the car. It does not cover suspension.

DV8 · Post by **DV8** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:18 am

It seems like after the first four years of your car's technical lifespan have come and gone they seem to just become this massive money sink. I haven't had a car for the last two-and-a-half years, and while there are times where I miss it, I'm glad the public transport infrastructure is of such quality that I don't need one any longer.

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:35 pm

You have that correct Deev, although I usually give a car 5 years. However, it's uncanny how cars start to "go bad" after they're out of warranty.

Last night I bit the bullet and ordered a complete suspension kit for my car. That includes 4 new shocks/struts and a complete control arm kit. So here's what I've spent:

Upgraded Control Arm Kit: $609.95 (Free shipping!)
Upgraded heavy duty shocks/struts: $520.00
Car stereo wiring repair performed at dealership: $500.00
Replaced rear sway bar bushings at dealership: $180.00
Audi factory repair manual: $90.00

Total so far: $1899.00

32 and I will be doing the rear shocks next week, and the front suspension sometime this spring/summer.

Now all I need are new tires (about $500.00), and I'll have a completely new suspension system with new tires that should last over 100,000 miles (except the tires).

Hopefully my turbos won't die, because that's a $6,000 repair, and I won't be able to do that myself (well, I could, but it would take a long time, and I need tools that I don't currently possess).

The real grind is that I spent $1700 on an extended warranty, and it doesn't cover any of what I've listed above. It covers powertrain items, but not the turbos.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:00 pm

DV8 wrote:It seems like after the first four years of your car's technical lifespan have come and gone they seem to just become this massive money sink.

Wait, what? Are you saying that after a car's turned four years old, it becomes a money sink?

3278 · Post by **3278** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:44 pm

Yeah, that's just nuts. I drive a 23-year-old car that was raced for a half-decade before I bought it and treated it like shit, and I've spent less than $500 a year on maintenance. Now, that's cheating, 'cause it's not like mine's in good shape, but like I say, it was treated like hell long before I bought it [for $1300, three years ago]. Spend $2500 on a good example of the breed, and maintain it like religion, and you'll still spend less than $500 a year on maintenance to keep it like mint. That's a monthly car payment for normal people.

I'm buying my next car tomorrow, for $850. I expect to spend less on maintenance over the next year than most people spend on interest on their car loans. Money sink, my ass.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:51 am

Part of it is expectations, what you expect of your car. I, for instance, have way lower expectations of my vehicles than probably almost anyone.

DV8 · Post by **DV8** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:05 am

3278 wrote:I'm buying my next car tomorrow, for $850. I expect to spend less on maintenance over the next year than most people spend on interest on their car loans. Money sink, my ass.

From all the stories I've heard, you tend to have quite a bit of trouble with your car and my guess is that it might be partly due to your driving style, but mostly because you drive older cars that have probably seen several technical lifecycles come and go. If you don't spend much money on them it's because you are or know a good mechanic. I think that for most people this isn't the case. The moment your warranty expires, like Joseph said, is the moment you start to see a surge of problems, which is exactly how they calculate the length and cost of the warranty.

By the way, I think that Jeep suits you.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:45 pm

I take your point on warranty calculation, and I agree. I just want to warn people off the notion that cars get expensive to maintain when they get older; with proper care, attention to the vehicle, and some thinking, once you get past the rash of things running out after the warranty, your costs are going to plateau for a long, long while. A long while.

It also helps to buy the right car: old BMWs are a cinch to repair yourself, and great for people just getting into self-maintenance. Old Mercs are so bulletproof that people in many countries don't repair them at all - or even change the oil - because it will die in a crash long before it breaks. And while I wouldn't buy a 30-year-old Japanese car, most Hondas and Toyotas made in the last couple of decades are crazy reliable, even with no maintenance at all.

Add in the simple economics - buy a 15-year-old Honda Civic for $500 and spend nothing on it for five years - and buying newer cars starts looking perilously like wasted money. There is simply no economic calculation by which it is reasonable to buy a new car, and very little argument for buying one that's newer than five years old. But you're not buying "car" at that point, you're buying "status," or the security of a warranty.

DV8 wrote:By the way, I think that Jeep suits you.

Yeah, I think it's a piece of crap, too.

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:23 pm

Boy we've really come full circle with our vehicles, eh 32? You're buying a Jeep (never thought you'd choose a Jeep), and I owned a truck for the last 3 years (again, wouldn't have seen that one coming!).

3278 · Post by **3278** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:00 pm

Yeah, I can't believe it, either. There's no doubt the Jeep will be useful in terms of functionality, and better in the winter than my tiny sports sedan, but it's hard to get used to the idea of slowing down when you come to a corner, not speeding up!

My goal is to end up with an all-terrain vehicle that's also good for winter, and a convertible sports car. I can have a Jeep and a Miata for less than $4000, in good, reliable condition, so that's what I'm working toward. [Although I may just buy another e30 3-series, because I'm just nuts about them.] For too long, I've been asking one car to serve two masters, so hopefully I can find an economical solution to both needs.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:58 pm

Serious Paul wrote:Part of it is expectations, what you expect of your car. I, for instance, have way lower expectations of my vehicles than probably almost anyone.

Like, "I need to get somewhere. Is there a machine that'll make that faster?"

Recently, I've started to expect less from my cars, too. I've finally decoupled my sense of self-worth and pride from my car: it used to be, I was ashamed to drive a car that didn't make me look and feel cool, but now I just want to get where I want to go, preferably with a smile on my face. But it's kind of pathetic how easy it is for a car - any car - to put a smile on my face, and I don't tie my sense of happiness to my car, either. That's why I can drive a fucked-up Jeep and not really care, the way H always drove those fucked-up cars and didn't care.

Now, when it comes to picking up girls in my rumble-rumble-clank 15-year-old offroader, maybe I'll feel stupid, but honestly, the girls I want to go out with either don't give a fuck, or else will think my kind of car is most excellent.

Bishop · Post by **Bishop** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:22 pm

Holy shit, you're buying a Jeep? I might have just had a mild heat attack.

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:08 pm

3278 wrote:Like, "I need to get somewhere. Is there a machine that'll make that faster?"

One of these with tundra tires will get you in and out of almost anywhere, and much faster than a car. Or THE ULTIMATE UTILITY VEHICLE, which literally can get you in and out of anywhere, and much faster than a car!

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:09 pm

Bishop wrote:Holy shit, you're buying a Jeep? I might have just had a mild heat attack.

I just got out of the cardiac unit at Sparrow Hospital. My reaction to 32 buying a Jeep sent me into quite a cardiac emergency.

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:20 pm

3278 wrote:...but now I just want to get where I want to go, preferably with a smile on my face.

This is about where I've been for a few years now, and why I was resistant to buying a truck. My truck has been great for me for the utility...I'm always working on my house, etc. For those kinds of projects, you can't beat a truck. But I don't really enjoy driving it. When I'm not towing a trailer or hauling a huge load of drywall or lumber, it's simply boring transportation.

I went from a Chevrolet Caprice at age 16, to a Chevrolet Celebrity, to a Buick Regal GS, to a Pontiac Firebird, to a Chevrolet Impala, to a Ford F-150, to an Audi A6. Of all the cars I've owned, The Audi and the Firebird are the top rides for me. The Firebird was sheer brute force and speed, albeit uncontrolled and not refined. It was loads of fun to drive, but also the least practical. The Audi is the most fantastic machine I've ever owned. It's not as straight-line fast as the Firebird (not by a long shot...yet), but it is so much more refined and well-behaved, even under wide open throttle, than any car I've ever owned. It truly is a driving experience for me. I don't want a track car, I don't want a drag racer, and I don't want a street racer. But even my 10-mile commute to work needs to be enjoyable for me. And the Audi provides just that.

When I drive to work, I immerse myself in the driving experience. From the music to the feel of the steering and suspension, I try to align my senses with the car. I'm in "the zone" when I drive. I'm not easily distracted by passengers. This is the driving experience I seek, even when running an errand. It's fun, it's thrilling and it's fulfilling. The Audi accomplishes this like no other car I've owned. All of that seems silly, but driving is and always has been one of life's pleasures for me...much like flying is to me now.

Heavy_D · Post by **Heavy_D** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:14 pm

I agree with you that driving can be a very pleasurable experience. At the moment I don't have a car and donn't need one since I live a whoppin' 8 minutes by foot from where I work. But I think I'd seriously enjoy an Audi A6 too if ever I have the money to buy one.

When I was over in the US in 2007 I rented a Dodge Charger. I must say that was a very good car. First American car I ever drove. It handled itself well and had an engine far more powerful then strictly necessary, but I'm thinking about importing one into Europe when I go back to the .nl in June.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:02 am

Bishop wrote:Holy shit, you're buying a Jeep? I might have just had a mild heat attack.

Yeah, I am pretty hot.

So, I bought the Jeep, and it's in my driveway, and I'm afraid it turns out that it's actually a fucking blast to drive. It's part-time 4x4, which means it's RWD when I want it to be, which means power slides. [Anyone remember when I drove a van?] It feels both retro [it has the same front vent triangle windows as my van] and futuristic [it's 6 years newer than my last car!]. And when I put my foot in it today, I made the same noise I made when I put my foot down in the Audi: it goes kind of like, "Uhhhaaahhhh!" A major surprise. But it develops more than twice the horsepower of the BMW, and doesn't weigh that much more: it's actually really minimalist.

Speaking of which, how awesome is it to get into a car and see virtually no controls? A modern car has just rows and rows of buttons, enough that BMW and Mercedes decided to replace them all with a computer. On the dash, the Jeep has a switch for the lights, a cigarette lighter, three heater sliders, and an AM/FM cassette player. Nothing else. It's awesome.

Also, and this might not strike the rest of you as odd, but everything works. All the power windows, all the locks, every gauge. The only functional shortcoming is that the struts that hold up the rear hatch are tired, and thus you've got to hold it on your own; new struts are [insanely] $30 a pop.

There's a tiny exhaust leak that I'll need to touch up with Joseph's welder, and eventually I'll need to drop $100 on a catalytic converter. The weird rear-end shuffle I felt yesterday - my guess: bushings - today seemed more like normal SUV behavior. I'll need to take it somewhere to make sure, but even if I have to replace every single bushing in the suspension, that'll cost less than $100. Awesome.

The tough repair will be the oil leak, which looks to me to be the rear main seal, which is a job for Joseph and Bishop and I, and shouldn't take particularly long [although we'll be greeezy when we're done]. I'll have to do that in the next couple of months, but that's not so bad.

All in all, for $850, I think maybe I got a good'un.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:49 pm

Code: Select all

$ 3.99&#58; Valvoline MaxLife stop-leak power steering fluid, just in case.
$ 4.09&#58; Valvoline fuel injector/intake valve cleaner, just in case.
$ 3.49&#58; Bar's Leaks oil stop-leak. Maybe fix the rear main seal?
$ 3.00&#58; Valvoline synthetic brake fluid, just in case.
$ 6.29&#58; Fram Tough Guard oil filter. Oil change this weekend.
$10.69&#58; Purolator fuel filter. This weekend, too.
$11.99&#58; Purolator PureOne air filter.
$37.98&#58; 2 gallons of Valvoline MaxLife Synthetic Blend oil.
$19.99&#58; Haynes repair manual, Cherokee 1984-2001.

Now it begins. I'll buy some new bolts to hold on the license plate, too, but I want to take apart the hatch [two screws] and use stainless bolts with plastic washers, so they don't rust together like the ones on the BMW.

Today I'll also run a tank of the Low Countries' best Royal Dutch Shell whup-ass premium through it, with the fuel cleaner, and see what happens. A noise from the engine is making me think a valve is stuck, and if it persists, I could break the piston, as I saw on another Jeep recently. I'm hoping to clean it up and put a stop to it, but I may have to take the cylinder head off and rebuild the cylinders. I'll also do a tune-up in the next couple of weeks, because it's conveniently at 200,000 miles. After that, all the routine maintenance will be done, and I can set about just enjoying it for a while. Until I break something, of course!

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:51 pm

What are you doing with the BMW? Scrap? Part-out then scrap?

3278 · Post by **3278** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:48 pm

There's a mechanic in Greenville who offered me $1000 for it a few weeks ago, so if I can find his number, I'll sell it to him. Otherwise, I'll just list it and sell it for whatever I can get from it. I know it seems like junk to you, but it runs and drives and, yes, is a rare classic car; it would be a waste to scrap it.

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:54 pm

3278 wrote:There's a mechanic in Greenville who offered me $1000 for it a few weeks ago, so if I can find his number, I'll sell it to him. Otherwise, I'll just list it and sell it for whatever I can get from it. I know it seems like junk to you, but it runs and drives and, yes, is a rare classic car; it would be a waste to scrap it.

I don't see it as junk...it would be a fantastic parts car. It's just so full of cancer, the body work needed to preserve it is rather more than our talents are capable of handling. The main reason I wanted to see you get into something else is that the rust through is so bad in spots that I'm worried about the structural integrity (i.e. the safety) of the car.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:32 pm

UncleJoseph wrote:I don't see it as junk...it would be a fantastic parts car.

That, too. It would also be a fantastic restoration car, if you had the body skills we don't. The frame is almost entirely good, with the exception of the front jack points...which is why I'm not keeping it. It seems kind of gay to ditch a car because of two points on the car, but like you say, it's totally beyond our abilities. Well, no: we totally could restore that car to mint, even with our skills, but...fuck, that'd be a lot of work. Too much time and money to be worthwhile for me.

UncleJoseph wrote:The main reason I wanted to see you get into something else is that the rust through is so bad in spots that I'm worried about the structural integrity (i.e. the safety) of the car.

...don't look real close at the Jeep, okay?

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:42 pm

3278 wrote:...don't look real close at the Jeep, okay?

I promise.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:35 pm

The rust was about thiiis close to making me not buy it. Just like the BMW, the frame itself is okay, but it's a unibody Jeep. [The first one, actually.] I've been reassured by looking at parts, because most of the places I have the kind of rust I'm worried about - cosmetic rust doesn't bother me a bit - have replacement parts, bolt-on or weld-in. There's no doubt your welder will be getting a workout from the Jeep.

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:43 pm

3278 wrote: There's no doubt your welder will be getting a workout from the Jeep.

As long as you don't mind some experimentation in the beginning (just as with that spot above the wheel on the Jetta). From the instruction I've received on auto body welding, we'll need to stitch weld everything. This is very different from the hands-on welding experience I've had, which was all structural.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:40 am

It's neat, because most of the Jeep was specifically made to have body panels replaced entirely, so most can just be removed and new ones bolted on. [And they're cheap.] But some things, like floorboards, which often need replaced if you're offroading, have to be cut out and stitch welded, which seems to me like a bad idea.

Hopefully, the next Jeep I get will be a Wrangler of one sort or another, which is made to be more modular, particularly the older ones. It's not even unibody: it's a ladder frame with a body, like dude's Willys next door. A Willys wouldn't be bad, either; I drove one for a summer and thought it was about the coolest thing ever. Almost killed Bob Hemmes in it, which is a bonus.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:36 pm

Code: Select all

$ 3.69&#58; New license plate light, plus extra.
$ 4.20&#58; New license plate mounts.

My first real repair today: the license plate screws and mounts were fucked with rust; on a normal car, you'd buy, you know, parts, and install them with chromed car-specific tools, but I used four bolts, four nuts, and eight plastic washers from the hardware store, and installed them with two screwdrivers and a wrench. Jeep-style, bitches!

I also installed the new air filter, and found the old one fouled with oil. Weird, right? I checked the CCV and fresh air hoses, and found them clogged. Cleaned it all in the sink and we'll see how that goes. Lots of gunk in the crankcase, though.

Did some crawling about and realized there's not just oil coming from the RMS. I don't think it'd be an overstatement to say there's oil leaking everywhere. Any place there's a gasket, there's oil residue. On the other hand, it's lost a quarter of a quart in the last hundred miles or so, so I'm not freaking. Still, it clearly needs an engine overhaul.

Forgot to buy transmission fluid. Not used to automatics.

Did some reading about BMWs today - habit, I guess - and found out that the reason I put the jack head through the frame wasn't rust, and it's not the frame, either. It's part of the body, and the jack head went through it because there's supposed to be a rubber pad there, and there isn't. So my only reason for ditching the BMW is invalidated. Whoops. I'll still sell it, because I want a 325is or 325iC, but it's good to know I'm an idiot.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:45 pm

Oil changes are one of those things - like cleaning the inside of the car - which only happen when my daughter [27] is with me, it's a nice day, and we're not doing something outdoorsy. Except that if it's a nice day, we're doing something outdoorsy, so I still haven't changed my oil. So today, before we went outdoorsing, we changed the oil.

Concerned that some of the oil leaks might have been from an improperly tightened or stripped oil drain plug, I bought a new one, with a molded-on rubber gasket. We also put in 6 quarts of MaxLife synthetic blend, and a bottle of Bar's Leaks. Now we just need to clean the whole underside and engine bay to see if it's still leaking, but that's for another day.

While we were at Advance Auto, we also bought a convex mirror. Visibility on the Jeep is actually excellent - it's a square vehicle slathered in windows - but I really like the one on my dad's Grand Prix, so I got one for the Jeep.

Code: Select all

$  1.99&#58; Convex wedge mirror.
$  3.29&#58; Oil pan drain plug

Funny story about repair costs: Joseph and I successfully replaced his rear shocks last week, but on setting the second [and last] wheel back down, we broke a part. We couldn't figure out what it was, but it clearly told the computer the suspension height. Joseph knew he didn't have an auto-leveling suspension, and I wasn't sure if his traction control needed to know rear left ride height, so we stayed confused until he looked it up: it's the sensor for his auto-leveling headlights. The part we broke is two plastic beams, maybe 2mm x 5mm, one maybe 9cm long, the other maybe 5cm long, joined by a small disk hinge. Replacement cost? US$75.

I know [now] that Dennis wasn't making a point about the repair costs of old cars [but rather one about planned part lifespans and warranty durations] but it's definitely reminded me of a point I'd like to make, and which I've obviously been keeping in mind: chosen well, a car can cost very very little, while delivering proportionately more value for money than a poorly-chosen car. Now, Joseph's car is a German luxury sedan, and its part costs shouldn't be compared to the Jeep, but it does bring up a point: cheap parts for old, very common, cars. The Jeep Cherokee was made more-or-less identically for a couple of decades, and thus parts for it are highly available, and thus not particularly expensive. For the price of one headlight-leveling-sensor-arm, I can buy a pair of ball joints, or a big chunk of my steering system, or a half a new door. [You can only buy the bottom half, not the top. Weird.]

There comes a time, usually when you're poor but sometimes when you're just reflective, when you start thinking about value. If I bought a hundred-thousand-dollar supercar, a ten-thousand-dollar sedan, and a thousand-dollar beater, would the supercar go a hundred times faster than the beater? Would the sedan make you only ten percent as happy? Even if you sum all the mechanical differences - 100 percent quicker, 50 percent greater cornering speed - and average them, the supercar isn't ever going to be 100 times better than a well-chosen running beater. Plus, parts for the supercar are impossibly expensive, and repairs shouldn't be undertaken by an amateur, whereas the beater is old enough to have dozens of repair manuals, cheap spare parts, lots of online owner groups, and very simple construction. [My Jeep has fewer than 20 parts in its entire suspension.]

Value is funny math, but like any kind of minimalism, it has its compelling side. It's worth thinking about, particularly for those who, like me, are both reflective and very, very poor.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Tue May 19, 2009 12:00 am

The brakes on the Jeep have been a little dicey since I bought it, but after a couple of weeks, the metal-on-metal sounds kicked in; this is how you know you've worn through the friction surface of the pads and are down to the backing material that binds the pads to the car. [This happened on the BMW, also; I let it go so long that eventually the metal backing came loose, jammed into the wheel, and I was driving for a couple of days with the bare piston striking the disk. Not recommended.] I basically ignored it, focused on my camping trip and the need for new shocks.

Thursday, I drove to Cedar Creek [PDF], a series of off-road vehicle trails. Now, I can't drive the Jeep on the trails - it's over 50" wide, and doesn't have an ORV permit - but the area is also intercut with forest roads. For those who don't know, forest roads are unmaintained trails, mostly originally cut by the National Forest Service for the purposes of logging. They're not plowed, and they're not graveled, and they're not really kept up in any way until the Forest Service needs to log that area again. The Jeep was amazing out there. Bone-stock and half-dead, it nevertheless tackled everything I could throw at it, and didn't die; actually, the broken shock has been behaving itself ever since. Several times, I got myself into places that I didn't think I could possibly get out of, and I just pointed the Jeep at whatever was in my way and drove on, sometimes looking only at sky through the windshield.

You'd think, after this serious brake workout, and considering their previous condition, I'd have replaced them right then, but instead I drove 175 miles into the wilderness to go camping, and 175 miles back. On the last day, though, they started doing some really terrible-sounding things, and shuddering and grinding and generally making it clear the brakes were getting done now, and the shocks later.

The repair was mostly simple; everything came apart very easily, and I never once needed a breaker bar or more leverage than I could make with a ratchet. I was so unused to this that it was a real shocker when I couldn't depress the piston far enough to install the new hardware. In the end, I opted for new calipers - even the shop couldn't retract the old piston, suggesting some sort of internal damage - and the resultant required brake bleed. All told, eight hours, including lunch and three trips to one part store, and a trip to three others looking for a bolt no one carries and which no one can even order, and which I eventually had to simply re-use. Not bad, although longer than I'd planned.

The condition of the old parts, however, was the real shock. I've done a lot of brake repairs, including the aforementioned BMW which had been driven with a bare piston on the disk, and I've never seen parts this messed up. The following pictures attempt to convey the depth of the problems:

The outer disk thickness seen there is less than a millimeter. In the second image, you can see the inner side of the disk, which is scored with two grooves, themselves at least a millimeter deep! And you can see the mounting rivets which dug them on the pad.

Seriously, when you start to hear metal-on-metal from your brakes, GET A BRAKE JOB IMMEDIATELY. Although, really, it worked out okay for me.

Now the hard, hard numbers, my first major repair:

Code: Select all

$ 73.98&#58; Brake disks, two.
$  5.99&#58; Hardware kit, ultimately unnecessary.
$  4.12&#58; Caliper pins, ultimately unnecessary.
$ 49.49&#58; Wagner ThermoQuiet semi-metallic pads, four.
$ 17.98&#58; Wiper blades. It was time.
$  4.09&#58; Caliper-to-brake-line crush rings.
$ 43.98&#58; Caliper, two.
$  5.49&#58; Brake quiet for use as disk anti-seize.
$  8.68&#58; 32oz Valvoline Synthetic brake fluid, two.

That's a hard day for me, but I'm glad it's done. I need to start putting money away for shocks, and the rear hatch struts. Also, I discovered today one of my coil springs is broken; it's not, uh, bad, but ultimately it's something you want to avoid.

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Tue May 19, 2009 1:43 am

That's a big chunk of change, no matter how you slice it. I found some OE replacement coil springs on ThePartsBin.com for as low as $37 each. I get web coupons from them from time to time...If you want to reimburse me, I'd be happy to order them for you and use a coupon when I get one. We'll be putting them on here anyway, right?

3278 · Post by **3278** » Tue May 19, 2009 6:27 pm

I was really hoping to avoid doing the coil springs when we do the shocks - getting the spring compressor on there will be something else, let me tell you - but we may have to. I still haven't decided which springs I'll buy; it may turn out to be economical to buy a lift kit that includes the springs as well as shocks, but I'd like to avoid doing a lift until I have bigger wheels/tires, and until more of the stock equipment is in good trim. We'll see.

edit: may not have to use the spring compressor; may be able to use gravity and the weight of the vehicle, but I can't find a good guide for the installation process. Where's my Chilton's?

Liniah · Post by **Liniah** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:55 am

I really can't picture you in a Jeep.

3278 wrote: On the dash, the Jeep has a switch for the lights, a cigarette lighter, three heater sliders, and an AM/FM cassette player. Nothing else. It's awesome.

Woohoo, I have a cassette player too! Everybody laughs at it, but I keep cassettes in my car as well. I'm old school like that.

3278 wrote:Also, and this might not strike the rest of you as odd, but everything works. All the power windows, all the locks, every gauge.

See, now you're getting high tech. I don't have power locks/windows.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:32 pm

Liniah wrote:I really can't picture you in a Jeep.

Neither could I! I really have never liked SUVs, although I've liked some real offroaders. Turns out this Cherokee is a real offroader. I've done things in this [bone stock] Jeep that I would have thought impossible for any unmodified vehicle. I've spent a lot of time in the woods with it lately - on trails and two-tracks; I'm no meadowstomper - and it still surprises me constantly.

Liniah wrote:Woohoo, I have a cassette player too! Everybody laughs at it, but I keep cassettes in my car as well. I'm old school like that.

I'm kind of disappointed because the cassette player doesn't work particularly well anymore; it runs at uneven speeds, which means it rips up tapes, and the tapes I still have are precious! So the choice is to buy another stock unit, or buy an aftermarket CD player, and disappointingly, the costs aren't very different.

Liniah wrote:See, now you're getting high tech. I don't have power locks/windows.

I was surprised, and kind of disappointed. I prefer the simple, but thus far all the electric stuff has worked just fine, so I can't complain too much.

It's weird: for the first time in a long time, I've bought a newer car than my last one, technically tied for the newest car I've ever owned! [Although it was 2000 or so when I drove another 1992, so it was quite a lot less old at the time.]

I like the Cherokee so much that I'm pretty sure that's what my daughter is going to get when she gets her first car in a few years. She really likes the Jeep's ability to tow boat and horse trailers and get her as far off the beaten path as possible, and I like its ability to be modified into a tank. We all win.

Liniah · Post by **Liniah** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:13 pm

I can't even imagine what I'll get after my current car. (Hopefully I won't need to think about that for a very long time!) Both cars I've owned were previously owned by family members, so to actually go out and decide on a car would be very strange for me.

Salvation122 · Post by **Salvation122** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:49 am

3278 wrote:The following pictures attempt to convey the depth of the problems:

Hahaha what

I'd keep that old pad as a paperweight. That's hilarious. Had they never been replaced previously? How many miles does this car have on it?

3278 · Post by **3278** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:00 pm

Salvation122 wrote:I'd keep that old pad as a paperweight. That's hilarious. Had they never been replaced previously? How many miles does this car have on it?

It's had 200,000 miles on it when I bought it [5,000 more, now]. The rotors were aftermarket, so they'd been done at some point, but, you know, not recently!

As for the fate of the pad, it will magically turn into two things: someone else's new car, and money in my pocket. I have a large pile of metal to take to the scrapyard now, including the BMW's old catalytic converter, chock full of platinum [or something similar].

And someone stopped by today to inquire about buying the BMW [which I still haven't gotten out of my parent's driveway, or put up for sale, or listed online], so maybe that will magically turn into someone else's car, and money for me, too. As much as I'd like to keep it, I don't want to do the transmission again, and I can't afford to do the head gasket. Or own two cars, for that matter. But selling the BMW would replace the entire suspension on the Jeep, so that's a good deal.

Cash · Post by **Cash** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:02 pm

Still have that shimmy in the back of the Jeep?

The Cherokee is a great vehicle, tons better than the Grand Cherokee (double the price for "luxury?" What the fuck was Chrysler thinking?)\

Let me guess...2WD, 4 Hi, 4 Low, and AWD (excuse me, part time or on demand 4WD) options? My truck now has it and it's one of the more useful features on the vehicle, especially the on demand AWD.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:43 pm

Cash wrote:Still have that shimmy in the back of the Jeep?

There may be some confusion; Joseph had a shimmy in the back of his Audi, which is now fixed, after we replaced - believe it or not - the entire front suspension, which apparently fixed the problem. I have the dreaded spring-bounce in the front of the Jeep, because my shocks are almost blown, and if I hit just the right kind of bumps, it's...unbelievably bad.

But within the next couple of weeks, we should have that fixed, too.

Cash wrote:The Cherokee is a great vehicle, tons better than the Grand Cherokee (double the price for "luxury?" What the fuck was Chrysler thinking?)

The Grand Cherokee is so funny. It shares almost no design with the Cherokee, isn't a particularly spirited offroader, but they slapped the name on all the same, and sold a billion of them. It's unreal how many Cherokees there are, too, but it helps that they made it for, like, a century, almost unchanged. Still, it's one of those things where you buy one and realize they're everywhere.

I want a Wrangler someday, but the Cherokee has been so great, and can be so modified to do so many different types of offroading, that I may always have one, anyway. If nothing else, I'll get my daughter one and borrow it.

Let me guess...2WD, 4 Hi, 4 Low, and AWD (excuse me, part time or on demand 4WD)

Cash wrote:options? My truck now has it and it's one of the more useful features on the vehicle, especially the on demand AWD.

Yeah, I've got the, whatever, SelecTrak part-time 4x4 system, which is so awesome. When it's in 4H, you can't make tight corners without juddering, because all the wheels are spinning at the same speed, but the inside wheels have less far to go. So you drop it into 2H, and make your turn - usually when I have to turn around for some reason - and then back into 4H. And you save tons of gasoline using 2H over 4H, just because there's so much less mechanical resistance. So I can run 2H on dry roads [and tight bends] and 4H offroading. Way better than all-time 4x4, in my opinion!

Can't wait for winter!

Cash · Post by **Cash** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:09 am

AWD has been great for the rainy days as well. So many idiots on the road...

The Grand Cherokee is so funny. It shares almost no design with the Cherokee, isn't a particularly spirited offroader, but they slapped the name on all the same, and sold a billion of them.

Yup. It's a nice vehicle, but the Cherokee is so much better and at half the price.

UncleJoseph · Post by **UncleJoseph** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:33 am

I recently developed a blown relay in my turn signals on the Audi. The turn signal relay is built in to the hazard light switch. It is one modular unit. Took me 15 minutes to replace it on Sunday. $27.50 from www.GermanAutoParts.com , the absolute best source for OEM parts for my Audi. This part from the dealership is close to $100.

Other odds and ends I need to fix:

Leaking windshield washer fluid system.
Rattling noise from the front suspension (probably just a loose dust shield).
Adjust the driver's side wiper arm. It is attached wrong, and interferes with the passenger side wiper arm when they come to rest.
Epoxy the dash cup holder trim piece.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:16 pm

Cash wrote:AWD has been great for the rainy days as well. So many idiots on the road...

I did some research, and it looks like I have the less desirable of the two 4WD systems, although it plays to my style of driving better. Mine is 2WD normally [and probably, without an LSD, 1WD really], then can be put in 4x4, in which all the wheels are locked to the same speed. This is why, in 4High, the axles hop and squeal when I make sharp turns, since the inside tires need to turn less far. It's okay on slippery surfaces, but not on pavement, where it could possibly do damage.

Now, if I get the other one, it'd be 4WD all the time, but with diffs that allow different rates of speed for each wheel, and then I can put it in 4x4 and lock the diffs. My next one - and certainly my daughter's - will definitely be this AWD model. In the meantime, I don't mind easy powerslides, so it's okay.