Cars, Part III

[Nicephorus]

I'm not any expert but, among station wagonish things, Subarus have some off road capability and are generally good cars, with good acceleration and tight turning radius. But they're often over priced.

[Bonefish]

I'm not any expert but, among station wagonish things, Subarus have some off road capability and are generally good cars, with good acceleration and tight turning radius. But they're often over priced.

I <3 subarus. Between Frakenstein(The subaru outback with a Subaru WRX drive train we made), my best friend in high schools subaru and my uncle's subaru, I have an overwhelming love of them. But... the cost...

[3278]

Yeah, a Subaru would be the perfect match, but in your area, finding one within $2000 that isn't a heap is tough. Worth keeping an eye out for, but might just leave you with a lemon. Same with BMW and Mercedes wagons, and even the ones I found close to your price range wouldn't have been 4wd.

However, Volvo makes the most reliable, safest wagons out there, and does a nice line in all-wheel-drive models like the V70 XC, which can be found in your area in your price range. I've seen old Volvos run to 750,000 miles, and new ones reach 250,000 without breaking a sweat. And they're safe as houses. Decent mileage in the city, too.

If you're looking for something trucklike, but also sort of a station wagon, might I humbly recommend the Jeep Cherokee, of which copious examples can be found in your price range, and which are reliable and easy and inexpensive to repair?

I'll keep thinking of other options, too. More about what you're looking for is always helpful!

[paladin2019]

If you're looking for something trucklike, but also sort of a station wagon, might I humbly recommend the Jeep Cherokee, of which copious examples can be found in your price range, and which are reliable and easy and inexpensive to repair?

I was thinking the same thing except for the whole fuel efficiency part. Are diesel and/or aluminun blocks and a bunch of aftermarket fibreglas body panels an option on your preferred platform?

And, Bone, what about an used Hearse? I've seen many a casket lined with styrofoam and aluminum.

[sinsual]

Edmunds:
If you're looking for a used Volvo V70 from this generation, there are a few changes to be aware of. In 2004, the 2.4T was replaced by the 2.5T, which offered a 2.5-liter turbocharged five-cylinder that pumped out 208 hp. An all-wheel-drive V70 (separate from the SUV-styled XC trim level) was available in 2.4T trim for 2002 and 2.5T trim for 2003-'04. The XC eventually became marketed as a separate model beginning in 2004. There was also a high-performance V70 R model, which was a 300-hp all-wheel-drive wonder wagon. It was available from 2004-'07. In terms of features, Volvo made minor improvements through the model run, but no particular year is a significant standout.

The first-generation V70 traces its roots back to the midsize Volvo 850, which debuted in 1993 as the first front-wheel-drive Volvo to be offered stateside. With its advanced safety features (including side airbags from 1995 onward), capacious interior and distinctive lineup of five-cylinder engines, this endearingly boxy people mover quickly became a strong seller. Base models were powered by a 2.4-liter 168-hp naturally aspirated five-cylinder engine, while the T5 model featured a sprightly 222-hp turbocharged inline-5. The GLT received a 2.4-liter 190-hp turbocharged-5 for 1997. Family-minded enthusiasts and their young ones could enjoy world-class performance courtesy of the even more powerful T5 R (later simply "R"), a 240-hp rocket sled that was one of the world's fastest wagons in its day.

The 850 wagon was revised and renamed "V70" for 1998. Apart from mildly updated front-end styling, a streamlined control layout and slightly softer suspension settings, not much had changed. All-wheel drive became an option on GLT models in 1998, and output in the T5 increased to 236 hp, while the top-performing R model was boosted to 246 hp. The base model and midlevel GLT had the same engines as before. A V70 XC version debuted for '98, sporting the turbocharged 2.4-liter engine, increased ground clearance, skid plates and off-road styling cues.

It's worth noting that since Ford took the helm in the late '90s, Volvos have lacked the rock-solid reliability of brands like Acura and Lexus, and they can also be expensive to repair. Finding a good certified used Volvo V70 or a car that still has the factory warranty might be the best way to go.

Rust is not as much an issue here, but the biggest major cost I know of has to do with the turbo systems, and a lack of ability to find parts at reasonable prices. Rockauto.com or some other online parts source may be your only bet.

[/quote]

[Bonefish]

And, Bone, what about an used Hearse? I've seen many a casket lined with styrofoam and aluminum.

Call her Bernice?

[paladin2019]

And, Bone, what about an used Hearse? I've seen many a casket lined with styrofoam and aluminum.

Call her Bernice?

There can only be one Bernice. But she may have a sister.

[3278]

Hrm. Now I want to put a Suzuki Hayabusa engine [and sequential gearbox] in my Cherokee. What a dreadful idea.

[Bonefish]

Belt tensioniorulley broke. As in sheared completely the fuck off. Why would you make it outta plastic?!

[paladin2019]

Belt tensioniorulley broke. As in sheared completely the fuck off. Why would you make it outta plastic?!

How much does it cost to replace? I think you have your answer.

[UncleJoseph]

Belt tensioniorulley broke. As in sheared completely the fuck off. Why would you make it outta plastic?!

Sometimes it's better to have one thing break than another, if something /is/ going to break. For example, in my old clothes washer there was a plastic coupling that connected the transmission to the clothes drum. If you overload the washer too many times, the coupling would shear and the whole washer would shut down. However, that $5 coupling shearing off meant that the more expensive transmission and motor did not wear out or break due to a heavy clothes load.

A similar design philosophy may apply to your tensioner, although perhaps not. Still, if it's a cheap part, it probably just got brittle & needed to be replaced anyway.

[UncleJoseph]

Hrm. Now I want to put a Suzuki Hayabusa engine [and sequential gearbox] in my Cherokee. What a dreadful idea.

The power-to-weight ratio of these engines is insane. I don't know if the reason they can make so much power in such a small, light package is due to how the engine is stressed. But it would seem that any car/truck equivalent is much more heavy-duty, so to speak. I would imagine that a motorcycle engine would have a hard time powering around a 4,000 lb. vehicle, even if the HP rating was around 170 or so. But I really don't know enough about the engineering of these things to really speak intelligently...I'm just taking a guess.

I've often thought a motorcycle engine would be a great choice for a lightweight, purpose built vehicle. Perhaps an alternative to an electric vehicle motor. Such things could be options for kit cars like the Sterling Sports Car, which is probably my favorite design for a kit car at the moment, although I'd prefer a scissor-door arrangement instead of the clamshell cockpit.

[3278]

Why would you make it outta plastic?!

Nylon pulleys aren't as hard on the belts, have less friction than metal ones, don't separate, are lighter, and of course cost less. I still prefer metal ones.

[3278]

The power-to-weight ratio of these engines is insane. I don't know if the reason they can make so much power in such a small, light package is due to how the engine is stressed. But it would seem that any car/truck equivalent is much more heavy-duty, so to speak.

It sure seems to me like the compactness of these engines means that every single part of them is thinner and weaker than the automotive counterpart, but I really have no idea, either. Seems reasonable, anyway.

I would imagine that a motorcycle engine would have a hard time powering around a 4,000 lb. vehicle, even if the HP rating was around 170 or so.

That's the best part! My Cherokee, as it sits, is probably under 3,000 pounds, which is a lot for a bike, but not completely ridiculous for a Hayabusa engine...I don't think. And considering a huge chunk of the 3000 pounds that's left - it's so light because it has no interior, no carpet, no rear seat, no post-95 side-impact beams, no four-door-four-pillar setup - is that monster I6 under the hood, the little bike motor would hardly have anything to pull around! Heck, we have to stake the Cherokee down so a strong wind doesn't take her away. Something like 130-150 horsepower per ton, about the same as a modern 3-series BMW, or a Subaru Imprezza WRX hatchback. It's...uh, scary, and unsafe, and something like piloting an atom bomb, since it has the power to weight ratio of a performance sedan, and the suspension of an ox cart.

I've often thought a motorcycle engine would be a great choice for a lightweight, purpose built vehicle.

I'd love to say the idea was mine, but the Hayabusa engine goes in the Westfield Megabusa [which is where I heard about it, when I was thinking of building a Westfield], and has been put into Golfs, Miatas, and, terrifyingly, a Smart. The little one.

Just did some incidental reading looking for the Hayabusa Smart, and one of the companies that sells Hayabusa engines for car conversions makes a special point of explaining that they replace the connecting rods with the strongest ones available, so I'm guessing your idea about durability under heavy load is probably bang-on. They also will uprate their Hayabusa engines to 400 horsepower, which would just about tear the wheels off my Cherokee, which wasn't really built for that sort of thing.

Such things could be options for kit cars like the Sterling Sports Car, which is probably my favorite design for a kit car at the moment, although I'd prefer a scissor-door arrangement instead of the clamshell cockpit.

My next major project is going to be building a car, and while I hadn't really thought about building one with a roof, that Sterling makes me want to consider it.

You know I can put scissor doors on the Cherokee? It's amazing I've resisted the urge.

[Bonefish]

Oh, and it wasn't the tensioner pulley. It was the Power steering pump ulley. And the power steering pump. Hurray unexpected costs!

[3278]

Gonna fix it yourself?

[Bonefish]

Yeah, My uncle came down and helped me. It was a run-a-round day of riding to one parts store then another, getting the wrong part, taking it back. Got soem leak fier today, because in the 10 ays since I fied it, had a ba power steerign leak. Hoep this helps.

[Bonefish]

Yeah, My uncle came down and helped me. It was a run-a-round day of riding to one parts store then another, getting the wrong part, taking it back. Got soem leak fier today, because in the 10 ays since I fied it, had a ba power steerign leak. Hoep this helps.

[sinsual]

Hrm. Now I want to put a Suzuki Hayabusa engine [and sequential gearbox] in my Cherokee. What a dreadful idea.

The Busa would burn out clutches way to fast. That is one of the issues the heavier conversions are having.

If you are REALLY interested in this idea, http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=10&sid=657e7a3a9652fa526bcb763861216089
Suzuki made a Factory 500cc two stroke and 800cc four stroke full time 4wd "Jeep". They were called the LJ50 and LJ80. Not the fastest things on the planet, but the LJ80 I once owned, in 4-Low did some amazing pulling for how little torque the motor actually had.

BTW, they were imported to the US, but only sold in Alaska and Hawaii until later, their younger children were imported en-masse in the 1300CC form known as the Samurai...

[UncleJoseph]

My wife's lease on her Honda CR-V was going to be up in March. She's been wanting to get back into a regular car, but we now live out in the country with spotty road conditions in winter. So, I had a sort of requirement that whatever car she'll be getting into will have all-wheel drive. Audi is out on sheer expense, and she doesn't like the VW Passat. There aren't many sedan-type vehicles with all-wheel drive in our price range, so I had been trying to get her up close and personal with a Subaru Legacy. Trouble is, even our Subaru dealership never has them in stock.

I found one on eBay just an hour a way. Sight unseen, I put a deposit down on it and had it pulled off the dealer's eBay ad and website. 3 days later, we drove it home. We got so lucky...it has all the options my wife wants, and it was the color she wanted. A short test drive when we arrived at the dealership was all it took. It's a 2010 Legacy Premium with just about every option available (Harmon Kardon stereo, leather heated seats, powered moon roof, cold weather packaged, etc.). It only had 28k on the odometer, and we got it for $17,250...a few thousand below the blue book value. So far, I am very impressed with this car.

We also got the Honda dealership to purchase her CR-V from us, thereby canceling out the lease a few months early. So everything fell into place right when we wanted it to...a rare thing for us these days.

[3278]

I didn't realize those came with CVTs; does hers have one? I'm interested in what they feel like to drive.

[UncleJoseph]

I didn't realize those came with CVTs; does hers have one? I'm interested in what they feel like to drive.

Yes, it has the CVT. I haven't driven it yet, but my wife likes it. I've ridden in it with her, and it is very smooth...it should be, with no normal gears. What really fries my brain is that it also has a manual shift mode with paddle shifters. Allows one to select the preferred "gear" manually. But there are no gears, in the normal sense.

[3278]

That's weird. It must just pick a set of points on the "cone" and call them gears, and let you manually jump to them. I think the CVT is the most interesting transmission going; I wish they were more durable, so they could withstand offroading and high-torque electric applications, but they're using them more in racing, so I would expect to start seeing them penetrate other markets soon. It's definitely my transmission of choice, so I look forward to hearing her experiences with it.

[Bonefish]

Craacked head gasket. Radiator is busted. Various other potential leaks in stuff. Pretty sure it's time to scrap it.

[UncleJoseph]

That's weird. It must just pick a set of points on the "cone" and call them gears, and let you manually jump to them. I think the CVT is the most interesting transmission going; I wish they were more durable, so they could withstand off roading and high-torque electric applications, but they're using them more in racing, so I would expect to start seeing them penetrate other markets soon. It's definitely my transmission of choice, so I look forward to hearing her experiences with it.

Yeah, it's an interesting piece of hardware. I haven't studied the tech behind them at all, so I know very little about the design. I drove her car today for the first time...freeway and surface streets for about an hour. There are some shift points, of sorts, that I noticed, so these must be where you can manually shift the car. I didn't try it in manual mode, but it lists a sequential number of "gears" you can select. Still seems counter-intuitive to me from a technical standpoint, but from a driving standpoint it's just as intuitive as any electronic shifter I've seen.

Shifts in automatic mode are very smooth, and the power band is consistent throughout the range. Her CR-V was an absolute dog in the middle power band, especially for passing and freeway on-ramp acceleration. The Legacy is much better at these tasks, though the acceleration isn't all that inspiring. At least it instills more confidence. With the CR-V we'd often only be at 45 mph when entering I-75 from I-69 (the tightest/shortest entrance ramp I've yet to drive) at full acceleration. The Legacy has no problem there, even though there's only 170 hp on tap, and CVT transmissions aren't as good at putting power to the pavement. But it's a pretty mature design, and I like how the power train is symmetrical....way better all-wheel drive in this than in the CR-V.

I'm interested in seeing how manual mode works but I don't know when I'll get around to that.

[3278]

Okay, so here's some questions, for a lazy Sunday morning:

In auto mode, pull up to a stop with a long straight ahead. Turn off the stereo. Give the car moderate to heavy acceleration.
• Does it keep the same rev count, more or less, throughout the acceleration, no matter the speed?
• Is it making the same 5000 RPM noise the whole time?
• If so, is that fatiguing to the ear?

If possible, repeat a few runs at different levels of acceleration.
• How is the rev count determined? By how far you've pressed the gas?
• If you accelerate hard, does it just jump to the "sweet spot" of peak torque and just hold it there, all the way from zero to whatever?

[UncleJoseph]

In auto mode, pull up to a stop with a long straight ahead. Turn off the stereo. Give the car moderate to heavy acceleration.
• Does it keep the same rev count, more or less, throughout the acceleration, no matter the speed?

No. It revs a lot like a normal automatic. Slightly different, but very close.

• Is it making the same 5000 RPM noise the whole time?
• If so, is that fatiguing to the ear?

Not at all. The revs are variable with speed, much like a regular auto. The sound is different than a normal auto, but not a lot different. No fatiguing sound at all. The car is louder than any other sort-of-equivalents I've driven, but not obnoxiously so. If my wife has one complaint, it's that the car is louder than her Honda or her Pontiac before that. It's louder at idle and certainly louder under load. But it is a minor gripe, and the volume level isn't that much louder.

If possible, repeat a few runs at different levels of acceleration.
• How is the rev count determined? By how far you've pressed the gas?

Yes, it will rev the engine higher when you want to accelerate aggressively. Again, a lot like a regular automatic.

• If you accelerate hard, does it just jump to the "sweet spot" of peak torque and just hold it there, all the way from zero to whatever?

I don't know if that's what it's doing, but I would guess. Yet, the revs are still changing. The only way I can really describe it is that it's almost a seamless transition of "gear" changes. I suspect there's a range of variability for each range of speeds and or power loads. These ranges would be considered similar to the regular gears in a normal auto. But the transmission continually adjusts throughout those ranges to provide a more matched power-to-demand ratio...or something like that.

Just come down and drive it...it's hard to explain! LOL

Since we've now had the car for about a month, we've had nothing but good experiences. We've had some fairly treacherous road conditions out here on the back roads. This car is far more stable and has way more traction that the CR-V ever had. While it doesn't have as much power as either of us would like, it certainly is smooth and meets our needs. The flat 4 is inherently balanced, and drivetrain geometry is symmetrical and balance...all adds to the rock-solid feel. Each time my wife drives in bad weather, she tells me how much she loves the car. Her CR-V was a vast improvement in traction over her Pontiac G6. The Subaru buries the CR-V.

[3278]

That's awesome! I'm a big, big fan of Subaru; I drove one as a company car some years ago, in the winter, and was barreled over by its all-wheel-drive. I drove it hard - exactly the way you'd expect me to drive it, really - and it was always settled and planted, and at the edge in difficult conditions was fun as hell. Yes, slow, and since I don't like turbos, even a WRX won't fix that objection of mine, but they're not really for that. It's the kind of car I would never buy for myself - if I wanted AWD, I'd buy an Audi, or a BMW iX - but that I'd always recommend to my children. [Which, in fact, I did, but was summarily told, "Sorry, boring," by a child whose behavior behind and wheel and taste in cars is uncomfortably familiar.]

I do not understand CVT behavior yet. I think the problem is that I have this idea of how I would make it work, and I can't wrap my head around any other idea. Which really just makes me want to build mine, and see why they don't all work that way.

[UncleJoseph]

Got my 90,000-mile interval service yesterday... it's what the dealership calls the "Major Service" on my Tundra, plus a factory recall service on my window switches. My major service included the replacement of all filters and fluids (except brake fluid) such as differentials, transfer case, transmission and coolant. There were lots of other inspection points, a tire rotation and a few other odds and ends, plus a regular oil change. The weird thing about the trans service...they only do a 4-quart exchange, rather than flush and replace the entire 11.7 quart system. This involves dropping the pan, checking the filter screen, then replacing the 4 quarts in the pan. The 7.7 quarts in the rest of the system don't get cycled out and replaced. This is the service Toyota specifies, but I often wonder what's the point. It's like adding 4 quarts of fresh water to 7.7 quarts of dirty toilet water and thinking that will somehow improve the dirty toilet water. I'd have preferred a total system flush and replacement, but that would've been a lot more money. Total cost fore my 90k service: $362.89 including tax. Not too shabby for all the stuff they did, and that was at the stealership!

I normally don't have them do things like air filters. Case in point: My cabin air filter costs $21 at retail. They charge $35. So $14 for installation...a convenience I really didn't need, but it was all included in the 90k service.

[3278]

We're doing some work on our third Cherokee this week: replacing the front shocks, steering stabilizer, and spring isolators, and putting in a heavy-duty tie rod, heavy-duty drag link, poly track bar bushings and poly-bushing swaybar endlinks. We're trying to isolate and prevent some massive high-speed stability problems, aka "death wobble," which is approximately 1000 percent worse than it sounds. Basically, we're replacing the entire front suspension and steering, a few pieces at a time.

And while doing some pretty rough trail running, I broke a shoddy former-owner repair on the exhaust, basically breaking it in half. Rather than have a shop just weld it back together, I decided we'd replace the whole exhaust, header to tailpipe: my daughter hasn't done a lot of exhaust work yet [just the systems on the BMW and on our first Cherokee] so it's good experience anyway, and we're putting pretty good parts on for an amazingly good deal: 20 percent off, plus $100 cash rebate, and free shipping.

All that remains now is rear shocks, vacuum brake bleeding, installing rear disks, replacing the floor pans, rocker panels, and fenders, buying new tires, installing a lift kit, fixing the slipping transmission, and throwing out the broken driver seat. And we need a new stereo. And the thing the driver belt goes into is actually from the back seat, so the driver isn't really safe, and the back seat is minus one seatbelt. Oh, steering pump leaks, too. And the thermostat. But we should have all these problems fixed just in time to sell it at a loss, the way we always do. Kind of an expensive hobby, but it keeps us off the streets.

[Serious Paul]

I've come to hate automobiles with a passion that grows stronger every single day. I'd love to take a bus everywhere. I'd be happy to never drive again.

[3278]

Got the new exhaust system:



We bought all Wagner, both for cost, and because they make the quietest muffler available for Cherokees. [We're not that wild about driving way out into the wilderness to see things, only to scare all those things off with the roaring beast we're driving.] We had some difficulties getting everything off, but fewer than I suspected - usually, some portion of exhaust work has to be done by mechanics with tools we don't have - and no real problems getting everything back on. Our clamps haven't completely sealed the pipes [they never do] but we can always weld them later, or just not worry about it.

Total cost was about $220, which is unreal. Typically, I'd expect to pay $450+shipping for a full exhaust, manifold to tailpipe, but I got 20% off at Autozone.com, plus a $100 cash rebate, plus free shipping, and on very affordable prices. And these aren't the bargain-basement Wagner parts: the cat and muffler are both stainless steel and high-flow. Factor the cost savings of no labor costs, and we're looking pretty good.

I don't think I've posted any pics of the new new Cherokee yet. I'll have to do that. It looks horrible, but, you know, it's ours.

[3278]

Oh, yeah. When we bought Cherokee 3.0, it wouldn't always start; you had to fiddle with
the shifter to get it to start. Neutral safety switch, naturally, we assumed, and kind of
forgot about it; we're used to working with quirky vehicles: I drove a manual BMW for seven
months without using the clutch. So on the second day, we drove to the store - my
daughter and the dog and I - shut the car off...and then couldn't start it. At all. In any
shifter position, and every position between.

So we hot-wired it - I crawled under the Jeep and shorted the started connections while she
turned the key - and got it home, and peeled the NSS off the side of the transmission. We
wrapped the piano bench in a garbage bag and a moving blanket, and cleaned up the
outside of the NSS:



We knew that the problem was, the connections inside the case had worn and weren't
allowing electricity through the contacts. So we popped it open and took a look. After
cleaning, we had this:



Sure enough, the contact strips were worn, and the little spring-loaded contacts in the
arm weren't spring-loaded any more, but stuffed with gunk. So out came the contact
cleaner, a sanding block, and a rag. Once everything was cleaned up - no new
components, just elbow grease [and a little actual grease], we had a clean NSS:



We re-assembled the two halves of the shell:



And had a pretty new NSS:



Total cost savings? $150 or so, for a half hour's work. Being poor saves you a lot of dough.

[UncleJoseph]

Looks like that thing cleaned up to almost new! I don't think I would have been able to diagnose that problem in the first place.

[3278]

We did finally run into a problem we couldn't diagnose [or at least not in the two days we have left to do it]. We replaced the exhaust, from manifold to tailpipe, including the O2 sensor. Drove it for a few days, no problems. I took it out, ran it for five minutes, brought it home where it idled for five minutes [while I convinced the dog it was okay to get inside a running car], and on my way out the drive, it just turned off.

Both ignition fuses were blown, and the IOD [Ignition Off Draw] fuse. Replaced them, but still no start. Fuel pump ran, pressure at the fuel rail, gas smell in the cylinders, so no spark. Tested plugs: indeed, no spark.Replaced the bad battery, and the cap and rotor. No start. Get only 12v out of the ignition coil, so test it: good. Test the crankcase position sensor: good. Then, out of time - we have to give our loaner car back tomorrow - finally took it to a shop this morning.

This Cherokee is not treating us well. We've put more money into it than any other car we've ever owned, and it's still the worst car we've ever had. Got totally ripped off, and it's my fault for not being more selective. But - see the pattern? - had only a couple days to buy a new car, and that one ran and drove, so it's the one we bought. Stupid.

[Bishop]

You replaced the cap and rotor, and still no spark? Wow. Sorry I didn't get over there this weekend, by the way. My back muscle blew up again, the one over the right hip. It never goes bad on me at work, throwing around 100 lb steel plates. No; it goes out on me at home, sitting on the bed putting on a pair of fucking socks. I mean, really?

[3278]

You replaced the cap and rotor, and still no spark? Wow.

Yeah, if the ignition coil doesn't get the right signal [via the ECU, presumably] from all the sensors - including the crankcase position sensor, the sync position sensor, and probably half a dozen others I don't know about - it won't trigger the coil. It's also possible the sync position sensor is shot, and the distributor itself isn't producing spark, even if it got spark from the coil. And that's not even accepting the possibility that when the Jeep flooded - did I mention it floods with water when it rains? - some engine circuitry shorted that isn't connected to any of these things. Which would all be cool, if I had a week, and enough money to test out new parts.

Sorry I didn't get over there this weekend, by the way.

No worries: Yancy and I worked on it Thursday, eliminated almost everything, and then I poked at it Saturday a little on my own, but I don't think there's more we could really have done in the time we had. Better you lie flat somewhere, being old and broken.

[Bishop]

I'm broken, fucker. I am not old.



Fuck.




I'm old, aren't I?

[3278]

If it's any consolation, I'm rather a bit older.

[UncleJoseph]

I'm old, aren't I?

Ain't it grand? Whenever I throw my back out, it almost always has to do with some random, innocuous movement like loading the dishwasher, or turning to look over my shoulder. The gross, heavy lifting and/or high strain movements seem to work out just fine. I've been going to a chiropractor somewhat regularly now for a couple of years. I get some relief, but the abuses I've put my body through over the years are catching up with me.

[3278]

And wouldn't you know it? It turned out to be the ignition coil after all. I didn't want to try it, and not be able to return it, so when it tested almost the same as the old one, I gave up. Could have saved me $120 if I'd just risked $50. Damn. But at least the Cherokee is running again, so we can start to install the steering/suspension parts I picked up, the front shocks, steering stabilizer, spring isolators, heavy-duty tie rod, heavy-duty drag link, and poly track bar bushings.

Step one, sand the shocks and stabilizer; step two, paint the shocks and stabilizer. White would look very dumb.

[3278]

Rainy day, and waiting for my daughter to get home so we can vacuum bleed the brakes, so I decided to tackle another problem: my wipers only worked on High, and even then were very slow, and when you turned them off, the wipers stopped wherever they were. Not dangerous, but annoying, particularly since I almost never turn my wipers "on," but instead use the single-stroke "mist" function, which didn't work at all.

After a little research, I took the lower dash trim panel off, and there it was: the intermittent wiper relay. If you buy a Cherokee with intermittent wipers, they plug this relay in the dash, and give you a different turn signal stalk; if you buy a Cherokee without, they just plug the two ends of the wiring harnesses that go into the relay into each other. So that's what I did. Alarmingly, when I tested it, smoke came out of the turn signal stalk - not good. But the wipers worked as they should, minus the intermittent function...and the smoke went away, and didn't come back.

Here's the really stupid part: the previous owners told me, "Oh, the wiper motor is tired, so it only works on high. It's a hundred bucks, so we never replaced it." But the actual cost of the "repair?" Zero. If I'd like intermittent wipers [which I almost never use], I can spend $30 on eBay or $5 at a junkyard and get one. This is why my Cherokee suffers from Previous Owner Syndrome. At some point, they also removed the lower dash trim panel [10 screws] bent and broke it and the steel dash frame, and put it back [with five screws]. There is a special place in hell for every person who ever sold me a car.

[UncleJoseph]

It's definitely a problem with used cars, especially ones that have been on the road a while, or have had multiple owners. I experienced that a lot with the Jetta. That being said, I've also driven enough new cars to know that they sometimes suffer from Bad Designer Syndrome. There are all sorts of features built into new cars today. Many of them really lack intelligent, thoughtful implementation, or are simply bad ideas from the start. We go through our police interceptors every 2-3 years. I've driven the same body style of crown vic/interceptor from 1999 (the first year) until this year, with the new redesign. Every new model year brings slight changes in controls, interior, etc. Almost every time, the changes are for the worse. It's not a matter of simply getting used to the changes...the new tech often doesn't work as well or isn't placed properly. The new design of interceptor has some great features, but it is way too overly complicated, even for personal use. The trend appears to be building in tons and tons of functions and flexibility, but most of the time that stuff gets in the way or never gets used, or complicates normal functions.

[3278]

Almost every time, the changes are for the worse. It's not a matter of simply getting used to the changes...the new tech often doesn't work as well or isn't placed properly.

Yeah, this is a real burden of the American System of Manufacture: you have to constantly change everything, because otherwise your competitor will, and people will buy their thing because it's a new thing. Driving new cars is a really disturbing experience for me, because good designs from 30 years ago have been abandoned in favor of things that are just new, but not better in any other way: heater controls are my favorite example. My mother's truck and my father's car, you have to take your eyes way off the road to use the heater control, because there's absolutely no way to determine the current setting without looking. What was wrong with sliders that had positions, and that you could feel? The dash layout in my 1992 Pontiac Sunbird was the best I've ever seen, with every necessary control placed in such a way as to be used without taking your hand from the wheel, but without cluttering the wheel or the column; a couple years later, they redesigned [and renamed] the car, and threw it all out.

I'm all for new things. I enjoy novelty [once I get used to change, which I admit takes me a while]. But making things worse for the sake of newness doesn't work for me.

The trend appears to be building in tons and tons of functions and flexibility, but most of the time that stuff gets in the way or never gets used, or complicates normal functions.

Yeah. BMW iDrive, anyone? My BMW had, like, eight controls, and they were all for driving the car. New BMWs have a control for how long the lights under the mirrors stay on [to the half-second] when you get out. Fuck that.

Okay, so, time to take a look at the offending bit:


Fair enough. Let's open it up, and see if there's anything to see:


Ah, indeed! It's hard to see, but there's a burnt trace, and some melted plastic, and char
marks. Looks like a short somewhere, so let's open up the circuit board and see what's what:


Well, bugger. Nothing. That means the short probably came from outside the relay, and
damaged it. That means the smoke from the turn signal stalk is probably the next piece of
that wiring shorting and burning, just like this did. That implies - and the fact that my
cruise control doesn't work supports the theory - that I've got a short somewhere in the
turn stalk. So, back to the garage to take it out and see.

[Bishop]

Well at least you're making headway.

[3278]

Because I needed my own car this weekend, Ana and I needed to bleed the brakes again. We'd tried twice, but just couldn't get a firm pedal. So last night we bled it again, but sucked some air into the master cylinder and made things worse. Before I pulled it to do a bench bleed, we comprehensively bled the system just to see if we could work it out. So much bleeding exposed an interesting condition: brake fluid was seeping from between the booster and master cylinder, implying bad seals in the MC.

So at 9pm last night, I pulled the MC, only to find the seals looked dry. WTF? But I'd already picked up another, so whatever. In the process, I realized the rod that actuates the MC was adjusted pretty short: this is probably what caused our soft pedal, by basically making the brakes not even start to work until well into the pedal stroke. So I've readjusted the rod, and we're bench-bleeding the new MC today, and re-bleeding the system. $40 of possibly unnecessary parts, but a new MC, so we'll see.

Bought the new MC at Autozone, basically because they were open late. It's totally a generic MC, with the wrong type of actuator rod, and missing a bench bleed kit. I went back to get the bench bleed kit - I can use the old rod - and they gave me a metric one, for my standard-sized booster. I'm done with them. I wish I could do these things not under one-day deadlines and no-money conditions, so I could buy the right part online, and have it shipped to me.

Still debating whether we keep this wreck and just keep replacing every part of it, or buy another, and risk that one being a wreck, too. We want a 1995, and the fact is, these weren't the best-made cars 20 years ago, and 20 years of hard use tears them up. Sure wouldn't mind getting one from south of the rust belt, though. Someday.

[Bishop]

Bought the new MC at Autozone, basically because they were open late. It's totally a generic MC, with the wrong type of actuator rod, and missing a bench bleed kit. I went back to get the bench bleed kit - I can use the old rod - and they gave me a metric one, for my standard-sized booster. I'm done with them. I wish I could do these things not under one-day deadlines and no-money conditions, so I could buy the right part online, and have it shipped to me.

I hear ya, dude. I try to never buy parts at Autozone, and if I do, I bring the old part with me to compare. I've even brought the tools with me, to make sure that everything important is the same. It's nice they're open late, but you pay for it with brainless zombie monkeys, most of the time.

[3278]

Got the new MC in, and it holds pressure, thank dog. Got a little ambitious with the actuator rod, and now the brakes are so tight they're on the whole time you're driving, red-hot and ready to burn. So Sunday - tomorrow is full up - I'll pull the MC [without disconnecting the lines] and shorten the rod a little.

Had to build my own bench bleeder again, half out of their kit and half out of parts I had, and then drove down a torn-up stretch of local road to shake out the last air from the M piston bore. Looked at the design of modern MCs and realized I'm lucky as hell: they're not quite so easy to jury-rig!

Once I get the brakes adjusted, it's time to start thinking about getting the tie rod, drag link, steering stabilizer, and track bar bushings in. But I've got to wait until I've got the cash for the inevitable alignment first. And a backup car, since I've never replaced quite this much of a car's running gear at once.

It's nice they're open late, but you pay for it with brainless zombie monkeys, most of the time.

Yeah, our local Carquest is run by a guy who's been doing this forever, and who tries to do right by everyone. Besides him, only one other person works there, so you're always dealing with the same good people, who quickly know you by name. And they're in walking distance of my house. I don't love the Carquest house brand parts, but this shop's a good one. Screw Autozone.

Mostly, I need to make sure I have time and money, so I can just order online, and buy Crown parts specifically built for my application. Lately, time and money have been my biggest enemies when it comes to buying and fixing cars.

[Bishop]

Almost always is, isn't it? Bane of poor broke bitches. (I still have to replace the wheel bearing on my step-daughter's van. Luckily, she bought the part.)

[sinsual]

An interesting thing happened on the way to the forum....

We traded the oldest daughter's 2004 PT Cruiser in towards a 2013 Kia Soul + back in March. In turn we gave her our 2007 Kia Spectra. Thanks to some errors on the part of the stealership, we actually walked out paying $3K UNDER KBB used car value. To make matters more interesting, this last week, KIA sent us a Loyalty Letter offering to buy my 2011 Soul base model for $12K towards a 2013 Soul base model. Someone again didn't do their homework. We bought ours in October 2011 for $10K out the door...
I really don't mind the base model for mine, it is the work horse of the house.

This makes the 5th Kia from the same dealer since 2003.