[Tech] New PC System questions

[Jeff Hauze]

I've been entertaining the thought for a while of getting a new tower. I'm happy with the gear I have in mine, save for two important facts.

1. It's louder than a fucking jet turbine.

2. One of the SATA lines is dead on the board, which means my second SATA drive (which also turns out to be bad, we've tested both) is useless.

So, I started browsing around to look at either a gaming/office system built to be quiet and/or liquid cooled. But I'm so far out of the hardware loop anymore that I'm a bit lost.

If I order components myself, I'm curious if anybody can talk about how difficult it is to set up a liquid cooling system yourself. Because the few places I found that did liquid cooling system (that aren't the stupid fucking alienware monstrousities) seem to be insanely expensive.

[Daki]

I need to find the company that Gunny bought her computer from. Very high end machine that is built for gaming and I believe they had the option for cooling systems.

[Jeff Hauze]

I don't necessarily need a real gaming monster here. Sadly, my current tower is pretty good for what I need. The board I bought ended up being rather shitty though. It has a few other problems that I found out about a bit too late to return it.

[3278]

Tell me your budget, and I'll tell you what to do.

Watercooling won't be necessary. More later.

[Jeff Hauze]

Budget is pretty flexible at the moment. Ideally, I'd like to cap it off at two grand. If I have to go a bit higher, so be it. Unless prices have drastically changed since I built my previous tower two years ago, 2K should be enough since I don't need any additional peripherals. Just the tower itself.

[Reika]

Honestly, I don't think you need a water cooled system, you may just need to look at what components you have and get something that won't overheat.

My current system has only 2 case fans which don't really make much noise so the computer only makes a quiet hum from various things. Now that I've ditched the Nvidia card it doesn't run anywhere near as hot. The only time it makes a bit of noise is when booting up.

[Jeff Hauze]

Honestly, I don't think you need a water cooled system, you may just need to look at what components you have and get something that won't overheat.

My current system has only 2 case fans which don't really make much noise so the computer only makes a quiet hum from various things. Now that I've ditched the Nvidia card it doesn't run anywhere near as hot. The only time it makes a bit of noise is when booting up.

Oh, the case isn't running hot. Temp isn't the problem at all. The case was built with three dual fans, plus the power supply fan. All of the fans are just extremely loud. I've disabled one of the fans, with no significant change in heat and no real reduction in noise. As for nvidia...you'll never get that shit inside my machine.

[3278]

Budget is pretty flexible at the moment. Ideally, I'd like to cap it off at two grand. If I have to go a bit higher, so be it. Unless prices have drastically changed since I built my previous tower two years ago, 2K should be enough since I don't need any additional peripherals. Just the tower itself.

Two thousand would be vastly more than sufficient. Two thousand would get you a top-end gaming machine, depending on whether or not you're talking about building it yourself or having a company build it for you. If you're building it yourself, one thousand would likely be nearly sufficient for your needs, depending on your video needs.

What do you plan on doing with the machine?

Computers today, purchased with any care at all, aren't audible beyond 2 meters. An extra couple hundred dollars worth of grommets, large slow-spinning fans, and tower heat sinks will make the machine inaudible beyond one meter, even in near-silent conditions.

Are you thinking of building it yourself, or having a builder do it? I have several reputable companies I could recommend who specialize in hand-built, high-quality, low-noise machines for well within your price range, depending on peripherals.

Water cooling is definitely unnecessary, adds an additional level of complexity to the machine, does not reduce noise as well as air-cooled options costing the same amount, and makes the machine difficult to move. It is only necessary when heavily overclocking or when using a completely passive watercooling system for absolute silence. Neither is necessary in your case.

[Jeff Hauze]

What do you plan on doing with the machine?

Are you thinking of building it yourself, or having a builder do it? I have several reputable companies I could recommend who specialize in hand-built, high-quality, low-noise machines for well within your price range, depending on peripherals.

Well, here's the general plan. I'm a PC gamer (whatever suits my fancy at the current time, so genre varies), and I'm currently sitting on a 256 MG AGP ATI card. I'd like to keep something comparable (since it really does run HL2 and Homeworld 2 beautifully even though HM2 sucked compared badly). From the little bit that I saw when looking around the other day, most of the newer boards seem to be PCI Express only for graphics cards. So I'd likely go with the most comparable ATI model I could find in that vein. Possibly go higher, but not real likely. I can always switch out later if need be. Beyond that, pretty much just the usual. Network card, I'll figure out some kind of decent sound card, probably go up from my current 1G of Ram to 2, and up my storage from the current 80G to something higher, DVD and CD burner. Beyond the small amount of gaming, it's mostly office type stuff along with some photo editing for the digital camera.

The most important thing for the system in my mind is that it is easily upgradeable for the future if need be. I don't need something maxed out right away, so that can also save on costs some. Secondly, quiet is the real key. The tower I have now is great...but just an acoustic monster. Well, and the few hardware problems from not researching my boards carefully enough last time.

If you've got some companies in mind, great. I'll certainly go for the ease of having somebody else put it together if the price doesn't get too jacked up as a result. If not, I can put it together myself, but my hardware skills have faded a lot from when I worked full time restoring/building systems. The usual stuff (installing RAM, hard drives, cards) no biggie. I'm totally cool with that. Swapping out power supplies? Decent, but rusty. Changing processors and its heat equipment, changing fans? Not so great at. Board diagnostics and RAID arrays? I downright suck at them now.

That's a good second question as well. Any recommendations on a RAID setup? Last time I had to deal with RAIDs in anyway was...well, more than five years ago I think. I'm totally out of the loop there.

[Jeff Hauze]

Just sticking a reminder in this thread for the Module. I'd love to grab a company recommendation if you have one.

[UncleJoseph]

With the exception of bundled software and the OS, you're going to save a lot of money on an equivalent system if you build it yourself. Unless you want to overclock or customize heavily, building yourself is a matter of plugging things in. Most stock cooling fans are at least adequate, if not solid performers. Building it yourself will also protect you against proprietary technology, which could inhibit upgrading. Ask any Dell owner how easy it is to upgrade.

$2000 is a nice set-up whether you build it yourself of purchase a complete system. If you like your current AGP card, then you'll likely love a new PCI-X card with much higher capabilities.

Unless you're very up on your skills, don't mess with water cooling. My next machine may be water-cooled, but only as a learning experience. Air cooling gives you the best bang for the buck, and it is a simple matter to dial down the fan speeds to a more acceptable level. The most noise these days tend to come from loud cooling fans on the graphics cards, when the graphics cards are working near their performance limits.

Don't spend your money on an average card, and then spend another $500 on an awesome graphics card a few months later. Spend more on the graphics card now.

Onboard audio these days is much better than it used to be. I still prefer a discreet audio board though, and the Sound Blaster Audigy is a great performer at an excellent price. The new X-Fi is even better, but more money.

Unless you want a RAID array, extra storage can easily be added later without have to re-format everything. Just plug in a new hard drive and you're all set.

[3278]

Well, here's the general plan. I'm a PC gamer (whatever suits my fancy at the current time, so genre varies), and I'm currently sitting on a 256 MG AGP ATI card. I'd like to keep something comparable (since it really does run HL2 and Homeworld 2 beautifully even though HM2 sucked compared badly). From the little bit that I saw when looking around the other day, most of the newer boards seem to be PCI Express only for graphics cards. So I'd likely go with the most comparable ATI model I could find in that vein.

You won't have a problem finding a video card to match that. Personally, I would recommend dropping about US$200 on a card, which is a good price/performance point, and if you're happy with the card you have, you won't believe what that can get you. ATI v. nVidia is a matter of personal preference - I have an ATI 9700 Pro in my dev machine, and I hope to never have another ATI card as long as I live - so take your pick around that point. If you buy a machine, you probably won't get much of a choice, anyway.

Network card, I'll figure out some kind of decent sound card, probably go up from my current 1G of Ram to 2, and up my storage from the current 80G to something higher, DVD and CD burner.

I wouldn't bother getting sound or network cards, for your purposes. Any decent motherboard will already have one or two network ports, and the gains you will get from a dedicated card aren't sufficient for the price. RAM, hard disk, and optical drives are things we'll get into as we go further; you'll definitely want a quiet drive, but I can list several for your purposes if you build it.

The most important thing for the system in my mind is that it is easily upgradeable for the future if need be.

Then I recommend a decent but not overwhelming Core2Duo motherboard. More later.

Secondly, quiet is the real key.

The kind of quiet you're talking about is almost certain, if you pick parts well. My kind of silence will only cost a couple hundred bucks, and will only change your choice of drive, and cooling fans on the processor and video card. But...

If you've got some companies in mind, great.

Given your stated current skill set, I wouldn't recommend you trying to build the kind of computer you're talking about, largely because of the complexity of cable routing and cooling. That doesn't matter, though: I'd gladly do the assembly, if only to have a nice machine around for a few days. But... there's a better option: buy this. It's the machine you want at a price you can afford, it'll be stable and silent - it was designed by Mike from SilentPCReview - and you'll get an actual support team. You can configure that machine in a number of ways, and still stay below your US$2000. [Every video card they list is nVidia, however. But many are fanless, which just isn't an option on hot-running ATI boards.]

Another company I favor is Puget Systems, who also do fine silent work. There are a lot of companies I'd recommend if "quiet" weren't on your list of desires, but those are the two boutique PC makers I trust for quiet.

Oh, and: RAID is unnecessary for your purposes, and will simply add an unnecessary layer of complexity over everything you do. Just buy a big drive, or two smaller ones. You can get a very nice, very quiet drive that's 500gb, which should keep you for a while. And that's one of the quietest drives ever tested, and is still big and fast. Faster drives are available, but they will all be louder and hotter, the two things you're trying to avoid. Once you get a decent power supply - Seasonic or my new favorite the Corsair HX520W - and no fans or quiet fans on your CPU and GPU, you'll quickly find out how important a quiet drive is: when I shut off my power supply fan, all I can hear is chunka-chunka-whine from the damned drive, so drive acoustics are important.

I've been working for a couple of years now to design a silent machine, so that if I ever build a new studio computer, I'll be ready. [I just built a new studio computer for Estes which is so quiet it freaks me out; I can't ever tell if it's on.] I know you don't need that level of silence, but you can get damned close for very little money. And, if you buy the SPCR-designed End PC Noise machine, it really will be that quiet.

[3278]

With the exception of bundled software and the OS, you're going to save a lot of money on an equivalent system if you build it yourself.

Always. Cannot agree more.

Most stock cooling fans are at least adequate, if not solid performers.

The downside being that stock fans sound like shit, of course. You'll want 120mm Nexus fans if you build it yourself, and a power supply with a 120mm fan and a good fan controller. Not being a nut, you won't need to undervolt the fans or anything radical, but the cooler that comes with your processor will be loud. I mean, listen to the one you have now: stock ones haven't gotten much better, although with PCM fan control, you can slow them down. Still doesn't make them pleasant, to be honest.

Building it yourself will also protect you against proprietary technology, which could inhibit upgrading. Ask any Dell owner how easy it is to upgrade.

Definitely don't buy a Dell or similar. [I like Dell, don't get me wrong, and I think there's a place for machines like that, but Joseph is correct.] Buying from a boutique builder, luckily, is like having a friend build it: nothing at all will be proprietary.

[Jeff Hauze]

Oooh...shiny. Thanks to both.

Wouldn't buy a Dell tower if my life depended on it. Normally I'd just do what I did with the last tower. Buy a barebones and assemble the rest myself. Dell laptop? I could excuse that, especially since I get a pretty hefty discount on them through work. But a tower? Fuck no. I'm not an uber geek anymore, but I'm still a geek. They'd take my membership card away for that.

Funny note though, Module. Puget Systems was one place I was checking out the other day, but I seemed to be having trouble accessing the page for their custom quiet systems. Thanks for the SPC link though. I'll take a look at more tonight.

[3278]

The beginnings of a system, if you should build it yourself. I'm only up to $1,225.94, and the system only needs a few more parts to be complete, some of which Newegg doesn't carry - drive grommets and Nexus fans, mostly. You could easily fill the extra money by getting a [louder, but vastly higher-performing and more futureproof] 8600GT or even an 8800. [I know you like ATI, but I don't know enough to quote for them.] You could also get a faster processor or better RAM. None, I suspect, would be necessary, although a better GPU always helps.

It's also worth noting that the motherboard could use some extra cooling on the Northbridge, given the low air movement through the case. That's something we'd have to look at.

Antec P182 Gun Metal Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
ASUS P5N-E SLI LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 650i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
XFX PVT73GU1D4 GeForce 7600GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Fatal1ty Professional CORSAIR CMPSU-520HX ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V 2.91 520W Power Supply - Retail
Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 Conroe 1.86GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6300 - Retail
CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Scythe SCINF-1000 120mm CPU Cooler - Retail

[3278]

I used to only use Intel processors in my builds. I started out in the PC space when it was either that, or processors that weren't 100 percent compatible with the Intel specs. [These are the 386 days.] I evangelized to anyone who would listen that it wasn't worth the price break to take an AMD or Cyrix processor. I continued this long - long, long - past the time it was valid, and even built some Pentium 4 space heaters for friends, not realizing that the days of Intel being the only choice, or the best choice, were long gone.

Finally, I remedied that bias just in time to build Estes' studio computer a couple of years back, with a very nice AMD, and an Asus motherboard to match. [I was finally swayed by Nigga JP, who, before his untimely death, I worked with to build Chernobyl, H's transparent green glowing PC powerhouse.] I was hooked: everything I read in my research said AMD - and the boards that worked with them - was vastly superior to Intel, even beyond price/performance. I had to change my mind.

I don't know what your bias against nVidia is, but I'm willing to bet it's not an "informed bias." It's stupid, like my preference for Intel long after AMD had passed them. [And I nearly got stuck again, preferring AMD/ASUS over any possible Intel offering, even when it was clear Core2Duo provided a better solution than X2.] So let me try to sway you: ATI, right now, is not what you want to buy. There are certain offerings, which, compared price-to-price with nVidia, are superior on pure FPS, but even the image quality differences you saw sixth months ago aren't there. ATI's software/driver solution is the worst in the business - worse than the Matrox control center, believe it or not - and is the dealbreaker for me, personally. Add to that ATI's current disfunction as a company, and it starts to look bad. Add to that their complete lack of response to the 8-series cards from nVidia, and there's just not a reason to buy ATI.

Maybe you had bad luck with an nVidia card. Maybe it melted your computer and caught your house on fire. I don't know. But unless it happened yesterday, the reasons aren't important anymore: you have to keep up, constantly, or your old biases start to become irrational. I spec'd nothing but AMDs past the point where Core2Duo was superior, because I wasn't keeping up.

Don't let your bias put an inferior card in your machine. Today's computers are, any time you're playing a game, GPU-limited. [Unless you're playing SupCom on a Pentium 3 or something. This is what lets me get away with playing C&C3 and LOTRBFME2TWK on a Pentium-3 902: I have an ATI 9700 Pro.] So don't skimp, and don't let past behavior which is no longer applicable sway your choice. Maybe your reason is still good - like, I won't use ATI even if they're better, cheaper, and faster, because their software is a dealbreaker for me - and if so, by all means, find a nice ATI card. But genuinely consider this, and don't let irrational bias based on long-past experience [like, three months ago] sway your choice.

End of sermon.

[Jeff Hauze]

Funny you posted that. I was just talking to Nex about this last night. As stated previously, I haven't kept up on the hardware market at all. But the last two cards I've bought were both ATI, and for good reason (at the time.) When I worked IT, we had an assload of general office machines that used onboard Nvidia. They sucked horribly. They were even worse to try and troubleshoot with. Bad batch, bad chips...got me. I just remember how badly they sucked. The place I worked at also had a number of AutoCAD machines that used separate Nvidia cards with many of the same problems. We ended out swapping them all out for ATI, and never ran into the same issues. My own home machines followed that preference. Back when I still followed the market, I was also quite a bit happier with the ATI design philosophy. From most of what I read, they went for performance through sleek design rather than just jamming more chips on a board for just more raw power. So, the preference carried over.

But no worries on the sermon being necessary. Even before Nex eh-juh-mah-kated me on some of ATI's most recent issues, I started to see some of the light in looking at some of the silent PC info. I'm out of the loop, so basing some thoughts on old info is inevitable. But I'm always a careful buyer. If I buy cheap, I buy cheap for a budgetary reason only. (My car's a great example of that.) But when I buy cheap, I do make sure to keep myself aware of ways to minimize risk. Nex or Reika will tell you how long I agonized over the last tower. When I start looking at any significant purchase, I end up pouring over information for weeks generally, until I feel very sure of what I'm going in for. And in the end, outside of my not so hot choice on the car, I've been pretty damn successful with tech. (Really, I can't complain about the car overly much, other than that it's a shitty Ford. It's still running after 7 years, with no overly huge expenses put into it until last year.) I've been using the same keyboard and set of speakers since I owned my first computer somewhere back in '98. My initial PC lasted well over 5 years. The current tower has served solidly for two, and would continue on perfectly fine for quite a while yet. But the few minor annoyances, like the bad SATA port and the jet turbine cooling system, have added up enough that I'm making an early swap.

So I won't shoot down any options after getting some more reliable info than my own memory. I'll start looking a little more closely at some thoughts on the system this week on my days off. It'll still probably be a few weeks until I make a final decision one way or the other. I will say that the Silent PC rig you linked to is fairly nice. The price holds me back just a bit though. It's not an unreasonable price at all. But considering it ends up with a slower processor (dual core though) and lower graphics card that what I'm running for more than I paid for the original tower, I'm going to check my options first.

In the end, I may just buy the parts myself and trick my techie friend to help on some of the work I'm rusty on.

[3278]

(Really, I can't complain about the car overly much, other than that it's a shitty Ford. It's still running after 7 years, with no overly huge expenses put into it until last year.)

Dude. You don't drive, say, an Escort, do you? That would be truly terrifying.

I will say that the Silent PC rig you linked to is fairly nice. The price holds me back just a bit though. It's not an unreasonable price at all. But considering it ends up with a slower processor (dual core though) and lower graphics card that what I'm running for more than I paid for the original tower, I'm going to check my options first.

What processor and video card are you currently running, anyway?

In the end, I may just buy the parts myself and trick my techie friend to help on some of the work I'm rusty on.

Always, always the best bet, provided you don't mind supporting yourself. The only tricky bits are layout - which you do ahead of time, anyway - and "places you need to use thermal paste," which isn't, you know, rocket science. I already have a wishlist built at Newegg with the parts I listed above, which we can change as you make decisions. I tried to make it public, but failed for some reason.

[Jeff Hauze]

Dude. You don't drive, say, an Escort, do you? That would be truly terrifying.

Uhh...Module. You've seen my Escort in person, twice. I'm guessing you didn't remember. You laughed at me quite a bit at that time. And I've still got the same car.

And terrifying? There's absolutely nothing terrifying about an Escort in any way, shape, or form. That is of course, why Nex and I named in the Pimpmobile. It's just so fitting.

What processor and video card are you currently running, anyway?

It's a P4 3 Gig. Don't have the exact model info handy at the moment. And a Radeon X850 256 Mg AGP card.

Always, always the best bet, provided you don't mind supporting yourself. The only tricky bits are layout - which you do ahead of time, anyway - and "places you need to use thermal paste," which isn't, you know, rocket science. I already have a wishlist built at Newegg with the parts I listed above, which we can change as you make decisions. I tried to make it public, but failed for some reason.

I'm not decided on that definitely. But it's looking like a strong possibility. (Of course, I may just get lazy in a week or two and buy up one of the SPC systems.)

[UncleJoseph]

Intel and AMD procs are really a matter of personal preference. I only build AMD machines, but recently Intel has had some some impressive performance with their Core2Duo. One of the things in the past with AMD, was that you weren't necessarily assured of full compatibility. But this was back in the early days (mid-90's). Now there's no compatibility issues with AMD.

With regard to NVIDIA on board video...on board video cards tend to suck ass, no matter who they're from. You get decent performance for an office machine, but gamers need much, much more. NVIDIA or ATI will serve you well. If you want a dual card set-up, however, I recommend NVIDIA over ATI. The architecture for SLI makes more sense to me than Crossfire.

My biggest recommendation to everyone when building a new system is this: Spend a vast percentage of money on your graphics and CPU. Worry about large capacity hard drives, better sound cards and peripherals later

Oh yeah, and if NewEgg doesn't have all your parts, I suggest ZipZoomFly. I've recently been shopping there with great success over NewEgg with respect to prices, shipping costs, and product availability. Not that New Egg isn't good...it's just that when one store doesn't have what you're looking for, the other usually does.

[3278]

Uhh...Module. You've seen my Escort in person, twice. I'm guessing you didn't remember. You laughed at me quite a bit at that time. And I've still got the same car.

Oh, no, I remember. I just can't believe you still drive it. That's the terrifying part. I've gone through, like, 4 cars since then! Of course, mine are usually a little less reliable and are driven a lot harder.

It's a P4 3 Gig.

Yeah, that Core2Duo should eat it, in every important way.

And a Radeon X850 256 Mg AGP card.

Just get the 7900GS or above, then.

[Jeff Hauze]

Oh, no, I remember. I just can't believe you still drive it. That's the terrifying part. I've gone through, like, 4 cars since then! Of course, mine are usually a little less reliable and are driven a lot harder.

It's only 7 years old! Wait...sorry, make that eight. I just want to see if I can get to at least 10 with it. Last year I dropped 1200 on it for inspection. However, that 1200 is still far cheaper than I can get paying a car payment every month, or even leasing. Then again, my dad's Camry is an '89 and still running. I'd be amused to see my own little monster make it to 2011. When the Awakening happens, I'm rather sure it's going to turn out to be a redneck spirit.

[3278]

It's only 7 years old! Wait...sorry, make that eight.

Dude. My car's 21 years old. Age ain't nothin' but a number, baby. [234,000+ miles and counting, far from my record of 314,000. 21 years old is the oldest car I've driven, though.]

I just want to see if I can get to at least 10 with it. Last year I dropped 1200 on it for inspection. However, that 1200 is still far cheaper than I can get paying a car payment every month, or even leasing.

Ha! I think, in the last two years since I bought it, I've spent a total of less than US$3000 to buy and maintain the car, not counting tires [I need about US$800+ per year in tires alone] or oil changes. I've had cars cost less, but usually that's because I didn't pay for them.

[3278]

And here's a reliable review of exactly the sort of system you're looking for, at exactly your price point, from Puget Systems.

One other thing: I don't know if you're considering it, but my [current] advice is do not get Vista.

[Jeff Hauze]

Wasn't exactly planning on it. Two of my favored games have known issues with Vista that have yet to be resolved.

[Reika]

Wasn't exactly planning on it. Two of my favored games have known issues with Vista that have yet to be resolved.

Most games pre-Vista are having issues with it. I've heard there's been issues with pre-Vista programs in general with Vista, a few techs I've talked to while hanging out before or after interviews since it's come out said that the general public who has been using XP or earlier should wait at least a year before upgrading.

[Salvation122]

The problems with Vista are pretty minor, for the most part, and almost entirely realted to either upgrade installations (which are ALWAYS a shitty idea) or driver issues which will be resolved soon. (Unless you're using the 64bit kernel, which almost nothing works with.) Most non-proprietary programs have Vista patches or workarounds availible by now.

[3278]

The problems with Vista are pretty minor, for the most part...

Which is what 50 percent of the people who use it will tell you. The other 50 percent will tell you it's unuseable in its current state on a "production" machine. This despite the fact that the two people will sometimes be using identical hardware to do identical things.

I'm usually an "early adopter." I was using XP and 2000 before they were released, because I worked for a Microsoft partner. When everyone would say, "I'm not buying it until the first service pack," I would scoff and show them my flawless, crash-free machine. But even I'm not picking up Vista, not because I'm worried about any flaws there might be, but because:

1. It kind of sucks. UAC being public suck number one.
2. I don't need it.

There's just not a compelling upgrade reason, and for me, there may never be. [I'm still using Windows 2000 on some of my machines.] Vista doesn't do anything, currently, that I need to do, that XP cannot. And by the time DX10 is an issue, and by the time programs start requiring Vista, there'll be a service pack, and all will be...uh, better, anyway.

[Cash]

[I was finally swayed by Nigga JP, who, before his untimely death,

Ah-bwa-huh?

[sinsual]

Jeff, I am a die hard nVidia fan. Now I am going to suggest that you not look at the nVidia 8800 series cards. Unless something huge has changed in the last couple of months, some of the higher end games are having driver issues with the 8800's that nVidia hasn't been able to fully fix.

I have built the 3 comps currently running in the house. All 3 run AMD processors, nVidia chipsets, nVidia graphics cards with 1 Abit board, 1 Asus board and 1 Gigabyte board. The newest runs the GForce 7600GS PCI-E 512 card which we picked up from Comp-Usa for $150. This card FUCKING ROCKS! with Burning Crusade running in the 60FPS at full tilt all systems go. All three comps were built for a grand or less. The other two comps have lower end cards simply because we couldn't get anymore of the 7600GS's and because both were built without PCI-E boards. The AGP card is just way to hard to get ahold of.

I would not mind looking into the Intel machines, its just that I always pulled down better deals for what [glow]I needed [/glow]with the AMD systems. Like Uncle Joseph and 3-2 have said, hold off on the soundcard, it can be easily added later. But having said that, if you use more then headphones, you might want to go ahead and invest in a good soundcard, its amazing how much of a difference it made when we upgraded to the blasters.

Oh and the car in the garage getting worked on is older then I am

[Jeff Hauze]

I started socking the money aside for the system out of this pay check. So likely two weeks from now, I'll order it. Probably going to end up buying the SPC rig. The tech friend insists that all PCs must be loud, because it is the only way to cool high end machines to their necessary level. He's got the skill to handle the job, but his design philosophy is more out of date than mine. And frankly, I'd prefer my free time be better spent working on the SR/CBT projects than the slogging through some of the info I'd need to brush up on the areas I'm lacking in. Thanks for all the help though, folks. I'll remember to post up the info on the machine I end up with.

[3278]

[I was finally swayed by Nigga JP, who, before his untimely death,

Ah-bwa-huh?

He died of a drug overdose, I don't know, must be a couple of years ago, now.

[3278]

Jeff, I am a die hard nVidia fan. Now I am going to suggest that you not look at the nVidia 8800 series cards. Unless something huge has changed in the last couple of months, some of the higher end games are having driver issues with the 8800's that nVidia hasn't been able to fully fix.

"Slowly but surely," I think characterizes the driver updates. I would definitely consider them robust enough to get an 8-series card, particularly 8800 GTS and the 8600 GTS.

Still, 8-series cards aren't, you know, necessary, and the high-end 7-series cards are really quite good, for not very much money.

[3278]

I started socking the money aside for the system out of this pay check. So likely two weeks from now, I'll order it. Probably going to end up buying the SPC rig.

Sweet. Let us know when the time comes, and we can all talk endlessly about exactly which options to get.

[3278]

I just ran the configurator and got a price just under two grand, raising the RAM to 2gb, choosing a fanless 7950GT, XP Pro, and the 500gb drive. So looks good, then, price-wise.

[Jeff Hauze]

Asus P5B-E Motherboard
Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 2.13GHz 2MB CPU
2GB (two 1GB) Corsair PC-6400
No Modem
Microsoft BLACK Keyboard/Mouse Combo
Western Digital Quiet 500GB 7200RPM 16MB SATA 2 Hard Drive
Install in Smart Drive ***Requires selection of Smart Drive
Antec Neo 430 Watt Quiet Power Supply
Windows XP Professional
Antec Solo P150 Black Tower Case
XFX 7900GS 256 Meg 2 DVI PCIE (w/VF900-CU)
Samsung (BLACK) Quiet LightScribe 18X DVDRW
Scythe Ninja PLUS Rev.B CPU Cooler SCNJ-1100P
Black 1.44MB Floppy Drive
No Media Card Reader
Samsung (BLACK) Quiet LightScribe 18X DVDRW
No 2nd Hard Drive
No RAID
No Sound Card (use onboard sound)
No Speakers
No Microsoft Office Software
Install Acoustipack Deluxe V2
No 1st 92mm front intake Case Fan installed
SPCR Logo
No LCD Monitor
No Anti-Virus Software Installed
Standard Processing- Ship within 5-8 Business Days
Add Smart Drive Copper HDD Enclosure
Restore Disk

Well, it's been a while, but this cash is now ready for me to go shopping. On the first run through playing around with it, here's what I got from the SilentPC site. It's certainly not a definite yet and it did end up a bit higher than I was initially planning ($2,213.90). Any thoughts?

[Marius]

Uh, yeah. That's too expensive, by far, for an inventory that doesn't include a monitor, much less one with those components. For the stuff you're looking at I can't see paying much more than $1000. Care to post up what each of those components are costing you?

[3278]

Uh, yeah. That's too expensive, by far, for an inventory that doesn't include a monitor, much less one with those components. For the stuff you're looking at I can't see paying much more than $1000. Care to post up what each of those components are costing you?

He's buying it assembled, and keep in mind this is a machine designed to be completely inaudible in a "silent" room from a distance of one meter [probably less, for this configuration]. In a standard room, you would almost literally need to press your ear to it to hear anything.

Built at home, this system, without some of the more esoteric silencer shtuff, would cost a little over a grand, yeah.

[Marius]

Well, it can be tricky to build a silent machine by yourself, but there are very, very few good reasons to buy a machine assembled. My current machine cost me about $1200 with monitor. It's far, far from silent, but I could fix that with less than $50 in fans.

[3278]

Well, it can be tricky to build a silent machine by yourself, but there are very, very few good reasons to buy a machine assembled.

Is "Jeff are lazy and stoopid" one of those reasons?

[Jeff Hauze]

Odd, I seem to remember you being the one to suggest that I not build the system myself. I also seem to remember you being the one to suggest that site. So if I'm going wrong on the build somewhere, I am actually asking for some direction there.

If I had somebody who was willing to do the build, I'd be more than glad to order the parts and save the cash. Unfortunately, that isn't the case. And I just frankly don't feel comfortable enough to try to deal with some of the wiring issues required.

[3278]

And I just frankly don't feel comfortable enough to try to deal with some of the wiring issues required.

That's what I meant. I was being cute. Sometimes, my idea of cute is strange.

Dude, in case I didn't make this 100 percent clear, I would be more than happy to build you a machine and save you some serious dough. You're my friend, and you're building a type of computer I know more about than anyone else you know, and which I will be building for myself...um, sometime. You'll have better selection of parts, lower prices, and get more machine for less money. You could even pass some of your enormous savings on to me, like a thank you, but with money. Plus, I could cut myself on it and chant a few phrases to protect it from evil. That seems to have worked for every machine I've built for myself, and I don't even do the chanting.

[Jeff Hauze]

Dude, in case I didn't make this 100 percent clear, I would be more than happy to build you a machine and save you some serious dough.

You probably did before, but I can't say I remembered that after all this time went by. My short, mid, and long term memory really aren't so great anymore.

[Kai]

I'd gladly build you whatever you were looking for Jeff, but with that kind of hardware, you'd have to build a trip to ATL in your budget because I sure as hell wouldn't trust anyone to ship it

[3278]

This is going to be awesome. Got your PM, Jeff. Have a much better idea of what you need. Newegging now. More soon!

[Marius]

Ah, newegg. I love it. I spend at least an hour per part looking all over for better deals, and for at least half my system I'm still buying it from newegg. If I recall I got a decently priced 320MB 8800

[3278]

Yeah, I used to Pricewatch everything, back before that site went through the suckblender, but I eventually found that having a computer shipped from 12 different places ended up making it more expensive than just shipping it all from Newegg. And this way, Jeff can just take a shared wish list I make, order it and have the parts shipped to me, and then he's in control of all the shipping and billing information, instead of me ordering it all with his money, or me sending him 12 links to different ordering pages. I build machines for people, you know, a lot, and Newegg makes this end of it so much easier.

[3278]

All right, as I finish up specing Jeff's new homebrew "toned-down" machine, I have one question for everyone before put it up for your approval: as the platform of the system - remembering its requirements - can anyone think of a practical reason not to use the Asus P5B? I'm an admitted Asus fan[atic], and I'd like to hear other suggestions before we move on.

[UncleJoseph]

I use ASUS and MSI boards almost exclusively.

I read some reviews on this board, and they seem to mostly be scathing or praising, and not much in between. Based on my own experiences with ASUS, I wouldn't hesitate to use it, and the price appears reasonable for the features.

[Jeff Hauze]

Asus is the only way to fly. Of course, I'm only about five years behind the tech curve, but their boards have always rocked on toast for me and my machines. The board I have now that has so many problems is the first non Asus board I've ever used.