[Middle East] Yasser Arafat looks to be a goner.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:00 am

So Yasser Arafat is pretty much history at this point, it seems. So do we think this will help the peace process, or do we think it will harm overall relations?

Apparently the Palestinian's are pretty damn afraid to even announce he's anything but okay.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:10 am

I'm not impressed yet. The Chinese managed a hell of a lot longer on worse pretenses than "He's not in a coma! Really!"

FlakJacket · Post by **FlakJacket** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:26 am

This is where things either turn the corner or go to hell in the express lift- there's is the third option of little real change but that's pretty much unlikely in my opinion.

Best outcome is that the leadership falls to someone younger and a little more open to negotiation that cleans up the corruption of the Palestinian Authority, the worst is that there's a power struggle between internal factions and Israel decides to take advantage of the situation and ditch the Roadmap altogether.

TheScamp · Post by **TheScamp** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:40 am

Shades of Francisco Franco, anyone?

mrmooky · Post by **mrmooky** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:39 am

The worst outcome is that the fundies of Hamas, rather than the secularits of Fatah, will seize the reins of power. And that's still a very live possibility.

Serious Paul wrote:So do we think this will help the peace process, or do we think it will harm overall relations?

In the immediate term, it will be bad. Arafat will cause a bigger headache for Sharon in death than he ever did in life. The Palestinian leadership wants his body to be buried in Jerusalem. If Israel lets him be buried there, it will be one more reason for the Palestinians to argue that they have a legitimate claim to the city, or part of it; this will be seen by many Israelis as a concession and a sign of weakness on Sharon's part. If Israel doesn't let him be buried there, it will be seen by many Palestinians and others as a final cruel insult to a revered Palestinian leader by a smug, petty and callous nation with no sense of basic human decency. Either way, Sharon's image at home or abroad is going to be seriously damaged by his decision. Ultimately, he will have to decide between the interests of his government and the interests of his nation - and I'm not sure which he'll choose.

In the long term, the effects of Arafat's passing are uncertain. It all depends on which individual or group replaces him, what their politics are and how willing they are to play ball with Israel. The ultimate outcome could be anything from an improvement to a total descent into chaos and bloodshed.

That said, I'm not willing to write Arafat off just yet. People like him have a tendency to hang on despite what everyone expects.

Marius · Post by **Marius** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:55 am

He should agree, as humbly low key as possible, to allow Arafat to be buried in Jerusalem. Then, sadly, Arafat's return flight from France should experience "technical failure" and crash into the Mediterranian.

mrmooky · Post by **mrmooky** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:05 am

The way the French are feeling about Israel at the moment, I wouldn't be surprised if the return flight got "hijacked" by "terrorists" and flown into the Knesset. All in all, it would be a fitting farewell for the man.

lorg · Post by **lorg** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:15 pm

They are talking about some blood disease or even poisoning. Personally I always thought that Arafat had alzheimers or something similar concidering how bad his body controll have been durring the last couple or years in his appearances as his hands have been shaking involuntary, or experienced slight tremors if you will.

Naturally it will be interesting to see who they choose. If someone close to say Hamas of Islamic Jihad or some other organization like that then the peace process could be more or less dead.

This whole where the man should be burried issue is interesting thou. He has always wanted to or expressed a desire to be burried in Jerusalem (after all half the city was theirs several decades ago). But at the same time his family is burried in Gaza I think it was (his dad etc).

Personally if I was Sharon I would let them burry the guy in Jerusalem. A nice gesture if nothing else. If they don't get to burry him there that will become yet another issue to squabble about and it is not like they don't have enough of them.

WillyGilligan · Post by **WillyGilligan** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:35 pm

If they don't get to burry him there that will become yet another issue to squabble about and it is not like they don't have enough of them.

But letting him be buried there gives the Israelis another issue to squabble about and it's not like they don't have enough of them, either.

lorg · Post by **lorg** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:40 pm

That is just the price you have to pay when you happen to have one of the holiest sites in Islam on your piece of land. You can either live with it or return the land.

WillyGilligan · Post by **WillyGilligan** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:49 pm

Yeah, and the day they have a leader that understands will still be a day where the people that leader represents won't understand that. The price will include a surcharge of "not getting re-elected/possibly being killed by your own people".

lorg · Post by **lorg** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:52 pm

Nobody said it would be an easy choice

Van Der Litreb · Post by **Van Der Litreb** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:09 pm

I was so hoping that Arafat would turn himself into a suicide bomber, and take out a good portion of Zionist Israel.

FlameBlade · Post by **FlameBlade** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:36 pm

The conditions are unknown. Even different news agencies have different word on it. BBC had him as dead this morning. CNN says that his condition is worsening.

Hmmm...

Maybe he's actually dead, and condition is worsening because he's decomposing?

<dramatic music!> Shhh...he's de-composing!

Alareth · Post by **Alareth** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:39 pm

I'm sure he is as healthy and alive as L. Ron Hubbard.

Daki · Post by **Daki** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:53 pm

Alareth wrote:I'm sure he is as healthy and alive as L. Ron Hubbard.

He's been dismembered, burned, bones crushed into powder and scattered across Lake Michigan?

Alareth · Post by **Alareth** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:06 pm

Daki wrote:
Alareth wrote:I'm sure he is as healthy and alive as L. Ron Hubbard.
He's been dismembered, burned, bones crushed into powder and scattered across Lake Michigan?

Sorry, brain misfire. I was thinking about something completely off track. Please disregard anything I say today as lucid thought.

Anguirel · Post by **Anguirel** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:49 am

Van Der Litreb wrote:I was so hoping that Arafat would turn himself into a suicide bomber, and take out a good portion of Zionist Israel.

Why do you think he wants to be buried in Jerusalem? I wonder how many explosives you can pack into a coffin...

FlameBlade · Post by **FlameBlade** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:15 am

simple. A nuclear bomb.

Done away with all the problems in Middle East.

ak404 · Post by **ak404** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:07 pm

Then you'd have American Jews and Arabs bickering over the ashes.

FlameBlade · Post by **FlameBlade** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:08 pm

Okay then.

Pray that Earth will finally collide into sun or something like that

crone · Post by **crone** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:52 am

He's dead, Jim.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:13 pm

Yup, he managed 75 years of damn stupid. Let's see if the next guy does any better.

DV8 · Post by **DV8** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:08 pm

I don't know if you could call him stupid. The Palestinian Authority has had it's ups and downs when it came to their effectiveness, and it certainly seemed to have gone downhill after Rabin got killed, but he went from a terrorist to a man who won the Nobel peace prize. You should see the speech he gave in front of the UN when the PLO got recognised by the UN in 1974. Pretty impressive stuff.

Crazy Elf · Post by **Crazy Elf** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:27 pm

And let's also remember that Israel managed to get founded with a little help from a bunch of Jewish terrorist groups. <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun>Irgun</a> and <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_%28group%29>Lehi</a>. No one's innocent over there, but Arafat did manage to make a nice turn around.

Salvation122 · Post by **Salvation122** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:52 pm

Forums make me laugh.

Torin Proud · Post by **Torin Proud** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 3:37 am

DV8 wrote:I don't know if you could call him stupid. The Palestinian Authority has had it's ups and downs when it came to their effectiveness, and it certainly seemed to have gone downhill after Rabin got killed, but he went from a terrorist to a man who won the Nobel peace prize. You should see the speech he gave in front of the UN when the PLO got recognised by the UN in 1974. Pretty impressive stuff.

Yeah I was being Flippant, I'll cop to that yer' honor. :aww

3278 · Post by **3278** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 3:40 am

My guess was that you weren't using the literal meaning of "stupid," but rather the colloquial meaning, and that additionally you were paraphrasing Captain Murphy, who, when speaking of that "Mandu crap," aka Hinduism, called it, "5,000 years of...of stupid!" in conversation with Dr Virjay.

lorg · Post by **lorg** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:16 am

So Freedom Fighter or Terrorist?

TLM · Post by **TLM** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:28 pm

lorg wrote:So Freedom Fighter or Terrorist?

Personally, I'd call him a terrorist who became a freedom fighter. But that's probably just me.

lorg · Post by **lorg** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:31 pm

It doesn't have to be exclusivly one or the other. Arafat always refered to himself as a freedom fighter, but then yeah they probably all do that ...

They started using terror to "highlight" their cause and struggle so it is no doubt he was one, atleast at one period in time.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:42 pm

Yeah I'll hedge my bets too.

Seriously though, his actions could easily be construed either way depending on when and what.

[Middle East] Yasser Arafat looks to be a goner.

[Middle East] Yasser Arafat looks to be a goner.

Re: [Middle East] Yasser Arafat looks to be a goner.