BUSH WINS

Marius · Post by **Marius** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:03 am

It's a Bush win, barring any earthshattering post-election lawsuits. The FL win will probalby stand up. The margin there is quite large. The OH margin is also around 200K, so probably more than enough to stand up to litigation.

mrmooky · Post by **mrmooky** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:10 am

Congratulations.

And yes, I do mean that genuinely. You actually elected one of the two guys properly, without a single court intervention or terrorist attack. I didn't think it would go so well.

Salvation122 · Post by **Salvation122** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:10 am

I hope he actually gets over the 270 - the riots that will occur if the House picks will be amusing, but destructive and better avoided.

Cash · Post by **Cash** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:16 am

Dewey wins!

Caine Hazen · Post by **Caine Hazen** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:37 am

I'd tune in CNN if you think bush wins...my state's is the new florida, maybe

the election is 10 days at least from being over, cause that's when Ohios votes will finally be tabulated

mrmooky · Post by **mrmooky** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:41 am

From what I saw, Bush had a reasonable lead of about 3% in Ohio.

Oh, by the way, if Ohio does actually become the new Florida, I withdraw my congratulations. Having *that* fiasco all over again just isn't good for democracy.

Big Jim · Post by **Big Jim** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:44 am

It's just under a 100k difference in OH right now, with 92% reporting. And with the 200K or so provisional ballots that still need to be counted, I think it's a little early.

Edit: Ok, it's not early any more.

Caine Hazen · Post by **Caine Hazen** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:44 am

1% right now...100K votes and getting smaller every update...between 100K and 200K provisional ballots and military votes still at large and not counted until the 10th day after the elections...no one is conciding this one...2000 all over again

<edit add in>

And with Iowa out now, we've got at least a few more days...

Johnny the Bull · Post by **Johnny the Bull** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:08 am

He's won it quite convincingly.

Artemis Frog · Post by **Artemis Frog** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:13 am

To win Ohio, Kerry would have to take more than 3/4 of the remaining votes to be counted, including the provisional ballots. And don't forget, that the provisional ballots are provisional. Many of them will be invalid... that's the whole point of them. Thus, Kerry would probably have to take close to 80% or more of the remaining valid votes to pull out a win there. Unlikely in the extreme.

mrmooky · Post by **mrmooky** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:15 am

Since when was Iowa out? It could still go either way.

And does anyone have any stats on the popular vote?

Johnny the Bull · Post by **Johnny the Bull** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:15 am

Artemis Frog wrote:To win Ohio, Kerry would have to take more than 3/4 of the remaining votes to be counted, including the provisional ballots. And don't forget, that the provisional ballots are provisional. Many of them will be invalid... that's the whole point of them. Thus, Kerry would probably have to take close to 80% or more of the remaining valid votes to pull out a win there. Unlikely in the extreme.

Unfortunately yes.

Artemis Frog · Post by **Artemis Frog** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:18 am

The US popular vote has Bush with a lead of 3.6 million votes, and only 15 or 16 million votes left to be counted.

Bush will win the popular vote.

mrmooky · Post by **mrmooky** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:19 am

In that case, we can actually call him fairly elected.

Artemis Frog · Post by **Artemis Frog** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:21 am

mrmooky wrote:Since when was Iowa out? It could still go either way.

And does anyone have any stats on the popular vote?

Yeah, Iowa can go either way, but New Mexico seems to be falling in Bush's column. Without NM, it's a 269-269 tie, but more likely, Bush will have 274 electoral votes (with NM) or maybe even 281 with Iowa.

Artemis Frog · Post by **Artemis Frog** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:24 am

mrmooky wrote:In that case, we can actually call him fairly elected.

Fair has nothing to do with it. All that counts is that the president is legally elected. And in 2000, Bush was legally elected. If you don't like the unfairness, then we need to change the system so that legal and fair make a closer match.

Caine Hazen · Post by **Caine Hazen** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:32 am

Iowa's out cause of fatiuge, and the counting won't be done til later..yeah I do conceed that Bush won the popular vote. but Iowa flipped last year during the provisional/military ballots, and Ohio could turn into a long process...like I've said another Florida. We'll hafta see. Strangly CNN seems to really have the best coverage for once...

mrmooky · Post by **mrmooky** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:39 am

Artemis Frog wrote:Fair has nothing to do with it. All that counts is that the president is legally elected.

Yes, but so was Saddam Hussein. Sorry, but if you want to have any kind of moral legitimacy as a leader, you have to have the support of your people. This time, Bush has shown that he has that support, so now I actually have some respect for him, even if I disagree with some of his policies.

lorg · Post by **lorg** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:55 am

Waiting ... waiting .... 11 freakin' days! They count the votes in that "third world" country India faster then that. Then perhaps we will have the pleasure of a few lawsuits and retakes on them. So basically it's the 2000 election all over again, they just moved the "fun" from Florida to Ohio.

But if Marius dream of 4 more years with Bush comes true (oh the horror!) what do you expect him to do durring that time? After all he can't go for a term after this one so all the really weird shit he believes in could be pushed thru now concidering the GOP will controll both house and senate.

mrmooky · Post by **mrmooky** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:43 am

Unlikely he'll be able to pass all the weird shit he wants to. The Republicans already had a majority in both houses, but not all of them supported Bush's policies automatically. Presumably there won't be a huge difference between the policy direction they take now and the direction they've already taken.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:39 am

It seems certain that we will not have to wait longer than today. From what I understand even if John Kerry wins the 116 or so thousand provisional votes (I mean win all of them, every last one) George Bush has a 140K lead. 140-116=No win.

That my friends as we say, is a wrap.

Kitt · Post by **Kitt** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:41 am

Hey guys, let's put it like this:
At the moment, it looks as though Bush has the best chance of winning. However, we won't be sure until all of the votes have been counted. We just have to sit tight and wait until then to see which politician (gawd I hope I spelled that one right) has control over our country.

lorg · Post by **lorg** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:55 am

Watching the state by state vote on the CNN election maps, how on earth can a state like Nevada vote for Bush? Don't they in large support themselves on "sinful" gambling, legalized prostitution etc etc ..

DV8 · Post by **DV8** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:01 pm

Because that's not all Bush stands for, ya nonce.

In fact, that might be exactly the reason why they're voting for Bush, who's far more in favour of smaller government interference than Kerry is.

Instant Cash · Post by **Instant Cash** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:19 pm

Some days it really fucking sucks to live in this country

Big Jim · Post by **Big Jim** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:33 pm

mrmooky wrote:
Artemis Frog wrote:Fair has nothing to do with it. All that counts is that the president is legally elected.
Yes, but so was Saddam Hussein. Sorry, but if you want to have any kind of moral legitimacy as a leader, you have to have the support of your people. This time, Bush has shown that he has that support, so now I actually have some respect for him, even if I disagree with some of his policies.

So this is the first president with moral legitimacy since 1988?

Artemis Frog · Post by **Artemis Frog** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:41 pm

mrmooky wrote:
Artemis Frog wrote:Fair has nothing to do with it. All that counts is that the president is legally elected.
Yes, but so was Saddam Hussein.

Right. And so we changed the system.

Sorry, but if you want to have any kind of moral legitimacy as a leader, you have to have the support of your people. This time, Bush has shown that he has that support, so now I actually have some respect for him, even if I disagree with some of his policies.

And I agree with you, but no one was talking about moral legitimacy. I think it's wonderful that it looks like we will have a clear winner, but even in a worst case scenario (election process-wise): the electoral vote goes to a 269-269 tie; two or three states are razor thin for Bush and going to court and recount; Kerry has a significant popular vote lead; and the House gives the office to Bush. Even in that worst-case scenario, Bush is still the legitimate president. If you think it's unfair, you blame the process and try to change it. The candidates, much as some people hate them, are NOT to blame for a fucked up process. And we don't change the legal results based on what we FEEL is fair.

MojoPin · Post by **MojoPin** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:51 pm

Instant Cash wrote:Some days it really fucking sucks to live in this country

At least you get to vote for the Master of the World. We can only sit back and watch it happening. Much more frustrating, let me tell you...

...
<Looks around> Damn, haven't been here in ages.

Instant Cash · Post by **Instant Cash** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:53 pm

MojoPin wrote: At least you get to vote for the Master of the World. We can only sit back and watch it happening. Much more frustrating, let me tell you...

...
<Looks around> Damn, haven't been here in ages.

I can only imagine. Much suckage.

And yes, welcome back.

Crazy Elf · Post by **Crazy Elf** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:58 pm

Well this count is going to be looked at very carefully, I'd say. I don't think he's going to be able to pull the same bullshit from four years ago.

But seriously, it would be great is someone raped him to death with some PVC pipe and barbed wire.

Coasini · Post by **Coasini** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:05 pm

Bush, Kerry, whoever.. doesn't matter. The US will have poor leadership either way for the next 4 years.

Cash · Post by **Cash** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:14 pm

Crazy Elf wrote:Well this count is going to be looked at very carefully, I'd say. I don't think he's going to be able to pull the same bullshit from four years ago.

But seriously, it would be great is someone raped him to death with some PVC pipe and barbed wire.

Well, the pretzel gave it a fair go.

lorg · Post by **lorg** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:17 pm

He got raped by the pretzel to? So it wasn't satisfied with choking him

FlameBlade · Post by **FlameBlade** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:33 pm

By the way...if anyone noticed, House of Representatives and Senate is controlled by Republicans, and it's looking like Bush will control the White House. That means, government is controlled by Republicans. It's going to be very interesting for next two or four years.

Instant Cash · Post by **Instant Cash** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:51 pm

FlameBlade wrote:By the way...if anyone noticed, House of Representatives and Senate is controlled by Republicans, and it's looking like Bush will control the White House. That means, government is controlled by Republicans. It's going to be very interesting for next two or four years.

Oh don't worry, this did not go unnoticed.

And to add insult to injury, this president will get to elect a large portion of the Supreme Court when the old bastards that are there now die off.

FlameBlade · Post by **FlameBlade** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:59 pm

To add further insult...Democrats won't be able to block certain appointees.

Raygun · Post by **Raygun** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:05 pm

FOX just reported that Kerry has called Bush and conceded.

Gunny · Post by **Gunny** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:17 pm

Raygun wrote:FOX just reported that Kerry has called Bush and conceded.

Hrn. So much for Edwards statement to the press "We will fight for every vote."

MSNBC is also reporting the call from Kerry.

Instant Cash · Post by **Instant Cash** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:18 pm

Raygun wrote:FOX just reported that Kerry has called Bush and conceded.

eh, it was inevitable

Reika · Post by **Reika** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:25 pm

Gunny wrote: Hrn. So much for Edwards statement to the press "We will fight for every vote."

Do you really want to see another fiasco like what happened in 2000?

lorg · Post by **lorg** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:27 pm

Whoohoo 4 more year ... 4 more years ... yuck!

Well I recon atleast it spared us another whole recount debacle.

MojoPin · Post by **MojoPin** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:50 pm

Just read Kerry was congratulating Bush for his victory. Hell buy him a beer and give him a hug, you joker. I really hate this congratulating your foe thing. Fuck this, this is pure hypocrisy. I'm totally ok with their being correct, not calling each other names or spitting in the face but this is pushing fair play way too far. Can't he simply concede victory and tell the American people he will keep on fighting for what he believes is right?? This is just disgraceful.

Marius · Post by **Marius** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:53 pm

Can't he simply concede victory and tell the American people he will keep on fighting for what he believes is right??

Not truthfully, no. Kerry's political career - undistinguished before his run for president - is pretty much limited now to being the junior (maybe soon senior) senator from MA, and continuing to author or pass any legislation of any interest whatsoever.

AtemHutlrt · Post by **AtemHutlrt** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:59 pm

Oh well. A lumpen, hollow president who puts more faith in mysticism than rationalism isn't that much worse than an undynamic, scattershot president with an imprecise paradigm.

I think I'm going to start printing my "Obama in '08" buttons.

TLM · Post by **TLM** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:11 pm

And... back. That was a fucking long commercial break.

Congratulations to President Bush (and I really mean this) from the bottom of my heart. No, really. Unlike 2000 there's no doubt about this being a fair and legal election, and when the people have spoken, that's all she wrote.

This will be a very, very interesting four years. No, it won't be the end of the world as we know it (maybe as some americans and arabs know it, though, which is what indicates this will be so interesting). And by '08... he'll be gone for good.

MooCow · Post by **MooCow** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:17 pm

Unlikely he'll be able to pass all the weird shit he wants to.

As long as the House gets off it's ass, reconciles HR3550 (Transportation
Equity Act: A Legacy for Users) with S1072 (Safe, Accountable, Flexible and Efficient
Transportation Equity Act), and passes the bill, they can outlaw skipping for all I care. Senate managed to do their job, passed S1072, then the House decided to go on vacation. Stupid fuckers.

I'm not bitter or anything though.

Cash · Post by **Cash** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:32 pm

For those of us that are too lazy to google, what do those bills do?

FlakJacket · Post by **FlakJacket** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:34 pm

Shouldn't you be adding a 'MooCow is a prostitute' line to the bottom of your signature?

MooCow · Post by **MooCow** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:43 pm

For those of us that are too lazy to google, what do those bills do?

S1072 provides $318 billion for transportation infrastructure over six years. HR3550 provides for a lesser amount if I recall properly, however it's funded badly and so it's actually the one that would be more likely to raise taxes. ASCE is mostly supporting S1072, though they'd like to see some of the things in HR3550 make it into the final bill.

Here is a link to HR3550
One to S1072
And ASCE's recommended reconciliations (You may not be able to view this, not certain)

Salvation122 · Post by **Salvation122** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:52 pm

Wow. Summary?