Rumors or fact? I honestly don't know.
- Serious Paul
- Devil
- Posts: 6644
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 12:38 pm
Rumors or fact? I honestly don't know.
Is there any truth to the rumor that Kerry is related to a Forbes, who made about 750 million off of contratcs negotiated with the Vietnamese?
Is there any truth to the rumor that Kerrys picture hangs in a Vietnamese memorial as one of the many Antiwar Protestors who aided the NVA in their war?
I've heard both of these, but never seen anything concrete denying or confirming them. i am just curious if it is true, or not.
Is there any truth to the rumor that Kerrys picture hangs in a Vietnamese memorial as one of the many Antiwar Protestors who aided the NVA in their war?
I've heard both of these, but never seen anything concrete denying or confirming them. i am just curious if it is true, or not.
His mother was Rosemary Forbes (died 2002) so he is a Forbes by blood. Don't know anything about contracts with the Vietnamese, but I doubt he had anything to do with them or could do much about it if it was or is true. After all he was there fighting not signing deals for goods and services.
Don't know anything about the NVA pictures and stuff but it sounds really stupid if you ask me, even if they do hang someplace it is not like he asked for it. Did they hang him next to Jane Fonda to?
edit;
John Kerry - Wikipedia - Biographical information
Don't know anything about the NVA pictures and stuff but it sounds really stupid if you ask me, even if they do hang someplace it is not like he asked for it. Did they hang him next to Jane Fonda to?
edit;
John Kerry - Wikipedia - Biographical information
Re: Rumors or fact? I honestly don't know.
If it were true, that'd put him on an even footing with Bush, whose grandpappy made millions trading with the Nazis.Serious Paul wrote:Is there any truth to the rumor that Kerry is related to a Forbes, who made about 750 million off of contratcs negotiated with the Vietnamese?
Does this one even matter? Both sides had an interest in ending the war. Is it even a remotely bad thing if the enemy recognised Kerry's contribution to an effort that benefited both groups?Serious Paul wrote:Is there any truth to the rumor that Kerrys picture hangs in a Vietnamese memorial as one of the many Antiwar Protestors who aided the NVA in their war?
- Serious Paul
- Devil
- Posts: 6644
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 12:38 pm
I think what people are saying is: why do you even care if they are true or false? They are quite irellevant either way. Kerry comes from a wealthy politically connected family therefore it is overwhelmingly likely that some of his relatives have been war profiteers and worse. He was a well known vietnam protestor so it is likely that some north vietnamese propaganda guy somewhere used his image as propaganda.
Why not spend your time googling for some usefull information?
Nearly as irrelevant today Putin endorsed Bush, saying that if Bush looses the terrorists win, or something like that. Having your anti-terrorism strategy endorsed by Putin is something like having your economic policy endorsed by Kim Jong Il.
Why not spend your time googling for some usefull information?
Nearly as irrelevant today Putin endorsed Bush, saying that if Bush looses the terrorists win, or something like that. Having your anti-terrorism strategy endorsed by Putin is something like having your economic policy endorsed by Kim Jong Il.
_No, I'm not John Tynes.
- Serious Paul
- Devil
- Posts: 6644
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 12:38 pm
Kerry's cousin is C. Stewart Forbes, who is (or was) the CEO of Collier's International, a company that got an infrastructure rebuilding contract in Vietnam in the 90's.Is there any truth to the rumor that Kerry is related to a Forbes, who made about 750 million off of contratcs negotiated with the Vietnamese?
A quick google search shows values of that contract to be from tens of millions to billions, depending on which of the anti-Kerry sites are writing about it. Actually, it's hard to find any info on this subject that's not on a partisan website, so take it with shat salt you will.
Now, are you asking if he "aided the NVA" in any other way than protesting when he came home?Is there any truth to the rumor that Kerrys picture hangs in a Vietnamese memorial as one of the many Antiwar Protestors who aided the NVA in their war?
Paul, it has been quite clear for over a year that you are going to vote for Bush. You claim to be undecided, but constantly come up with new straws to grab at so you can vote for him. Get over it. You are decided, for whatever reason that you aparrantly can't even admit to yourself you want to vote for Bush no matter what he is or does.
Your straws do seem to be getting thinner lately though. Some months ago it was cheap oil wasn't it? Now its what possible evils Kerry's relatives might have done decades after he was personally killing communist vietnamese soldiers and noticing that the war he was fighting was a total fuckup.
It is quite hilarious to hear you claim that vietnamese communist propaganda will decide your vote for president though!
Your straws do seem to be getting thinner lately though. Some months ago it was cheap oil wasn't it? Now its what possible evils Kerry's relatives might have done decades after he was personally killing communist vietnamese soldiers and noticing that the war he was fighting was a total fuckup.
It is quite hilarious to hear you claim that vietnamese communist propaganda will decide your vote for president though!
_No, I'm not John Tynes.
- Serious Paul
- Devil
- Posts: 6644
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 12:38 pm
- DarkMage
- Bondsman of the Crimson Assfro
- Posts: 2133
- Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2002 3:41 pm
- Location: Upstate NY
I don't find hit funny, I do wonder why it matters though? So they NVM used his picture to say "hey he helped us" I've seen pictures of Bush depeicted as Hitler, does that mean he is Hitler?
_
What is a friend? A single soul in two bodies - Aristotle
Drive by Ogling
:plode :plode :plode
</hr>
What is a friend? A single soul in two bodies - Aristotle
Drive by Ogling
:plode :plode :plode
</hr>
- Johnny the Bull
- Bulldrek Pimp
- Posts: 930
- Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 5:16 am
- Location: Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates
- Contact:
Here's something from about.com
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/b ... kerry2.htm
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/b ... kerry2.htm
7. Kerry's cousin, C. Stewart Forbes, chief executive for Colliers International, assisted in brokering a $905 million deal to develop a deep-sea port at Vung Tau, Vietnam.
True. In 1993, under the direction of CEO C. Stewart Forbes (a relative of Kerry on his mother's side), Boston-based real estate giant Colliers International brokered just such a deal between an Asian subsidiary, Colliers Jardine, and the Vietnamese government to develop the port of Vung Tau.
Terror, like charity, begins at home.
- Elldren
- Bulldrek Junkie
- Posts: 568
- Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 4:39 pm
- Location: The Desert Sands of Left Tennessee
I fail to see how this can be construed as a bad thing.crone wrote:Here's something from about.com
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/b ... kerry2.htm
7. Kerry's cousin, C. Stewart Forbes, chief executive for Colliers International, assisted in brokering a $905 million deal to develop a deep-sea port at Vung Tau, Vietnam.
True. In 1993, under the direction of CEO C. Stewart Forbes (a relative of Kerry on his mother's side), Boston-based real estate giant Colliers International brokered just such a deal between an Asian subsidiary, Colliers Jardine, and the Vietnamese government to develop the port of Vung Tau.
Eagles may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines
<font size=-2 color=#5c7898><i>For, to seek for a true defence in an untrue weapon, is to angle on the earth for fish, and to hunt in the sea for hares.[/i] -- Robert Silver, <i>Paradoxes of Defence</i>, 1599</font>
<font size=-2 color=#5c7898><i>For, to seek for a true defence in an untrue weapon, is to angle on the earth for fish, and to hunt in the sea for hares.[/i] -- Robert Silver, <i>Paradoxes of Defence</i>, 1599</font>
- Subversive Agent
- Bulldrekker
- Posts: 339
- Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:03 pm
- Location: The Void
1)"a relative of Kerry on his mother's side"
"I am your sister's mother's brother's father's war profiteer."
2) So he was a war protester. So maybe he doesn't deserve his medals. He still volunteered for Vietnam and risked getting his ass shot off while Bush didn't. Hence "As a veteran" that you are, it makes perfect sense to me why you would vote Bush...
"I am your sister's mother's brother's father's war profiteer."
2) So he was a war protester. So maybe he doesn't deserve his medals. He still volunteered for Vietnam and risked getting his ass shot off while Bush didn't. Hence "As a veteran" that you are, it makes perfect sense to me why you would vote Bush...
_<font color=#5c7898>"The most dangerous man, to any government, is the man who is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable, and so, if he is romantic, he tries to change it. And even if he is not romantic personally he is very apt to spread discontent among those that are."
H.L. Mencken
H.L. Mencken
- FlameBlade
- SMITE!™ Master
- Posts: 8644
- Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 3:54 am
- Contact:
- Serious Paul
- Devil
- Posts: 6644
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 12:38 pm
- FlakJacket
- Orbital Cow Private
- Posts: 4064
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 2:05 pm
- Location: Birminghman, UK
- Serious Paul
- Devil
- Posts: 6644
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 12:38 pm
- Johnny the Bull
- Bulldrek Pimp
- Posts: 930
- Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 5:16 am
- Location: Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates
- Contact:
The voter that actually considers issues rationally then takes a while to stew over it and make a decision.Serious Paul wrote:Two articles in Playboy actually. One was on Religous extrism at home, a comparison between Born again Christians and Muslims. It was well documented, and very well written. The other was an article on Iraq, and what the people there were doing with their new found freedoms.
More Americans should be like you Paul, regardless as to who they vote for.
--------------------------------------------
No money, no honey
No money, no honey
Well here I am looking like a dumbass again.
I have heard that they actually have very good articles. Something about having gobs of money and lots of time to research and write stories... but somehow I never get to reading them. Last time I looked at playboy it was all about the naked olympic pole-vaulters.
I have heard that they actually have very good articles. Something about having gobs of money and lots of time to research and write stories... but somehow I never get to reading them. Last time I looked at playboy it was all about the naked olympic pole-vaulters.
_No, I'm not John Tynes.
- Serious Paul
- Devil
- Posts: 6644
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 12:38 pm
- Salvation122
- Grand Marshall of the Imperium
- Posts: 3776
- Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2002 7:20 pm
- Location: Memphis, TN
Kerry pushes to normalize relations with Vietnam. His cousin then makes a shit-ton of money based on that action. If you buy into the Haliburton bullshit, you had better buy into this bullshit as well.Elldren wrote:I fail to see how this can be construed as a bad thing.crone wrote:Here's something from about.com
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/b ... kerry2.htm
7. Kerry's cousin, C. Stewart Forbes, chief executive for Colliers International, assisted in brokering a $905 million deal to develop a deep-sea port at Vung Tau, Vietnam.
True. In 1993, under the direction of CEO C. Stewart Forbes (a relative of Kerry on his mother's side), Boston-based real estate giant Colliers International brokered just such a deal between an Asian subsidiary, Colliers Jardine, and the Vietnamese government to develop the port of Vung Tau.
- Elldren
- Bulldrek Junkie
- Posts: 568
- Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 4:39 pm
- Location: The Desert Sands of Left Tennessee
Well, sure, but then I don't see the Halliburton bullshit as a bad thing either.Salvation122 wrote:Kerry pushes to normalize relations with Vietnam. His cousin then makes a shit-ton of money based on that action. If you buy into the Haliburton bullshit, you had better buy into this bullshit as well.
Eagles may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines
<font size=-2 color=#5c7898><i>For, to seek for a true defence in an untrue weapon, is to angle on the earth for fish, and to hunt in the sea for hares.[/i] -- Robert Silver, <i>Paradoxes of Defence</i>, 1599</font>
<font size=-2 color=#5c7898><i>For, to seek for a true defence in an untrue weapon, is to angle on the earth for fish, and to hunt in the sea for hares.[/i] -- Robert Silver, <i>Paradoxes of Defence</i>, 1599</font>
- Johnny the Bull
- Bulldrek Pimp
- Posts: 930
- Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 5:16 am
- Location: Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates
- Contact:
Didn't they have to tender a bid for that project Sal?Salvation122 wrote:Kerry pushes to normalize relations with Vietnam. His cousin then makes a shit-ton of money based on that action. If you buy into the Haliburton bullshit, you had better buy into this bullshit as well.Elldren wrote:I fail to see how this can be construed as a bad thing.
--------------------------------------------
No money, no honey
No money, no honey
Yeah, but you don't have to make the same judgement. I mean, improving relations between the US and Vietnam can only be a good thing, whereas the jury's still out on the merit of invading Iraq.Salvation122 wrote:If you buy into the Haliburton bullshit, you had better buy into this bullshit as well.
- Salvation122
- Grand Marshall of the Imperium
- Posts: 3776
- Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2002 7:20 pm
- Location: Memphis, TN
- Johnny the Bull
- Bulldrek Pimp
- Posts: 930
- Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 5:16 am
- Location: Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates
- Contact:
If there was no tender then the comparison is valid. If there was a bidding process for the contract, then your comparison to Haliburton is not valid.Salvation122 wrote:You'd have to ask the Vietnamese, since it was their government who handled it.Johnny the Bull wrote:Didn't they have to tender a bid for that project Sal?
--------------------------------------------
No money, no honey
No money, no honey
Bush - Kerry related - graphics
Uhhh the horror! Some genealogist have managed to dig up that Bush and Kerry are related if you go back several generations to the late 1500's or early 1600's. Hardly surprising since if you go back enough generations it usually turns out most people are related to most people in one way or another.
So worst for whom? Kerry being related to the rightwing nut job or Bush to the liberal weiner?
Uhhh the horror! Some genealogist have managed to dig up that Bush and Kerry are related if you go back several generations to the late 1500's or early 1600's. Hardly surprising since if you go back enough generations it usually turns out most people are related to most people in one way or another.
So worst for whom? Kerry being related to the rightwing nut job or Bush to the liberal weiner?
Well no, in and of it's self it isn't. At least, not for a politician. For normal people, you don't have to question their motives. However, it is entirely possible, and it's been said by several right wing sources, that Kerry volunteered for the express purpose of getting political credit. It's also been claimed that he had contacts that were able to ensure he wasn't ever in the "really bad" parts of the conflict.Not only is he a Vet, he volunteered for service. Regardless of what Ho Chi Minh thinks, surely that's worth some credit.
When your motives are selfish you don't get any credit for acts of nobility.
_
Cain is a Whore
Instant Cash is a Slut
Cain is a Whore
Instant Cash is a Slut
- Elldren
- Bulldrek Junkie
- Posts: 568
- Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 4:39 pm
- Location: The Desert Sands of Left Tennessee
When you're taking fire, you're in a "really bad" part of the conflict. Being anywhere in the conflict could well be considered "really bad." If his contacts were anywhere near good enough, he would have never left the U.S., which leads me to believe that either A) he didn't have those contacts, B) he had contacts who couldn't find their ass with both hands and a flashlight, or more likely C) he did have such contacts, but he never expressed any interest in being kept out of the conflict.MooCow wrote:It's also been claimed that he had contacts that were able to ensure he wasn't ever in the "really bad" parts of the conflict.
Eagles may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines
<font size=-2 color=#5c7898><i>For, to seek for a true defence in an untrue weapon, is to angle on the earth for fish, and to hunt in the sea for hares.[/i] -- Robert Silver, <i>Paradoxes of Defence</i>, 1599</font>
<font size=-2 color=#5c7898><i>For, to seek for a true defence in an untrue weapon, is to angle on the earth for fish, and to hunt in the sea for hares.[/i] -- Robert Silver, <i>Paradoxes of Defence</i>, 1599</font>
- Elldren
- Bulldrek Junkie
- Posts: 568
- Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 4:39 pm
- Location: The Desert Sands of Left Tennessee
Or just a guy, like any other guy, who happened to volunteer for the US Navy, for whatever reason. I personally feel that motive matters fuck all, the only time it's really useful is in acting and forensics.
Eagles may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines
<font size=-2 color=#5c7898><i>For, to seek for a true defence in an untrue weapon, is to angle on the earth for fish, and to hunt in the sea for hares.[/i] -- Robert Silver, <i>Paradoxes of Defence</i>, 1599</font>
<font size=-2 color=#5c7898><i>For, to seek for a true defence in an untrue weapon, is to angle on the earth for fish, and to hunt in the sea for hares.[/i] -- Robert Silver, <i>Paradoxes of Defence</i>, 1599</font>
If you go back enough generations, /everyone/ is /always/ related to /everyone else./ If you go back enough generations, all living things on the planet have a common ancestor. So no, not really surprising; actually, totally inevitable.lorg wrote:Hardly surprising since if you go back enough generations it usually turns out most people are related to most people in one way or another.
As a matter of fact, they did do a good job, and he did, in so many words, express interest in being kept out of the conflict. Kerry said, in interviews and in books, that the reason he specifically requested duty on the swift boats was that they were - at the time - intended merely for behind-the-lines patrol, far from any combat or danger. It was a change in higher military strategy later in the conflict that used the swift boats differently from their original purpose, and suprised young JFK with duty he hadn't signed up for. He was a bit sore about that later, although luckly he only had to endure it for a ridiculously short period of time.When you're taking fire, you're in a "really bad" part of the conflict. Being anywhere in the conflict could well be considered "really bad." If his contacts were anywhere near good enough, he would have never left the U.S., which leads me to believe that either A) he didn't have those contacts, B) he had contacts who couldn't find their ass with both hands and a flashlight, or more likely C) he did have such contacts, but he never expressed any interest in being kept out of the conflict.
There is then a need to guard against a temptation to overstate the economic evils of our own age, and to ignore the existence of similar, or worse, evils in earlier ages. Even though some exaggeration may, for the time, stimulate others, as well as ourselves, to a more intense resolve that the present evils should no longer exist, but it is not less wrong and generally it is much more foolish to palter with truth for good than for a selfish cause. The pessimistic descriptions of our own age, combined with the romantic exaggeration of the happiness of past ages must tend to setting aside the methods of progress, the work of which, if slow, is yet solid, and lead to the hasty adoption of others of greater promise, but which resemble the potent medicines of a charlatan, and while quickly effecting a little good sow the seeds of widespread and lasting decay. This impatient insincerity is an evil only less great than the moral torpor which can endure, that we with our modern resources and knowledge should look contentedly at the continued destruction of all that is worth having. There is an evil and an extreme impatience as well as an extreme patience with social ills.
- FlakJacket
- Orbital Cow Private
- Posts: 4064
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 2:05 pm
- Location: Birminghman, UK
Kerry was safely stationed on an aircraft carrier tens of miles off the coast of vietnam when he requested a transfer to the swift boat.
If he wanted to be safe he would have just stayed on the carrier. The evidence is that he wanted to see the reality of the war because he was beginning to have questions about it. This was all farily late in the war. His aircraft carrier shipmates thought he was crazy to volunteer for dangerour duty.
JFK may have been suprised to get shot at, but Kerry was expecting it when he transferred.
If he wanted to be safe he would have just stayed on the carrier. The evidence is that he wanted to see the reality of the war because he was beginning to have questions about it. This was all farily late in the war. His aircraft carrier shipmates thought he was crazy to volunteer for dangerour duty.
JFK may have been suprised to get shot at, but Kerry was expecting it when he transferred.
_No, I'm not John Tynes.
- Anguirel
- Freeman of the Crimson Assfro
- Posts: 2278
- Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2002 12:04 pm
- Location: City of Angels
JFK is John F. Kerry in this case.Rev wrote:JFK may have been suprised to get shot at, but Kerry was expecting it when he transferred.
complete. dirty. whore.
_Patience said: Ang, you are truly a font of varied and useful information.
IRC Fun:
<Reika> What a glorious way to die.
<Jackal> What are you, Klingon?
<Reika> Worse, a paladin.
<Jackal> We're all fucked.
_Patience said: Ang, you are truly a font of varied and useful information.
IRC Fun:
<Reika> What a glorious way to die.
<Jackal> What are you, Klingon?
<Reika> Worse, a paladin.
<Jackal> We're all fucked.
Heh, well anyway Looks like Kennedy went to some fairly extreem lengths to get to fight btw (on a PT boat in ww2). He had back problems and spent five months overcoming them well enough to get into the navy after being rejected by the army.
Anyhow Kerry was safe and sound on his aircraft carrier when he requested a vastly more dangerous assignment where he earned several medals and was (mildly) wounded 3 times. It is quite possible that swift boat duty turned out to be even more dangerous than he expected. The whole "fighting a war" thing certainly turned out to be far more distasteful than he had imagined.
George bush was safe and sound in alabama working on a pro-war congressional candidate's campaign and bragging about his nightly drinking before he went to harvard and skipped out on the remainder of his "military" obligation in violation of a direct order. His imaginations of war remained completely intact, aparrantly right up to today.
Anyhow Kerry was safe and sound on his aircraft carrier when he requested a vastly more dangerous assignment where he earned several medals and was (mildly) wounded 3 times. It is quite possible that swift boat duty turned out to be even more dangerous than he expected. The whole "fighting a war" thing certainly turned out to be far more distasteful than he had imagined.
George bush was safe and sound in alabama working on a pro-war congressional candidate's campaign and bragging about his nightly drinking before he went to harvard and skipped out on the remainder of his "military" obligation in violation of a direct order. His imaginations of war remained completely intact, aparrantly right up to today.
_No, I'm not John Tynes.
The evidence - his own words - is that he never intended to see combat.The evidence is that he wanted to see the reality of the war because he was beginning to have questions about it.
There is then a need to guard against a temptation to overstate the economic evils of our own age, and to ignore the existence of similar, or worse, evils in earlier ages. Even though some exaggeration may, for the time, stimulate others, as well as ourselves, to a more intense resolve that the present evils should no longer exist, but it is not less wrong and generally it is much more foolish to palter with truth for good than for a selfish cause. The pessimistic descriptions of our own age, combined with the romantic exaggeration of the happiness of past ages must tend to setting aside the methods of progress, the work of which, if slow, is yet solid, and lead to the hasty adoption of others of greater promise, but which resemble the potent medicines of a charlatan, and while quickly effecting a little good sow the seeds of widespread and lasting decay. This impatient insincerity is an evil only less great than the moral torpor which can endure, that we with our modern resources and knowledge should look contentedly at the continued destruction of all that is worth having. There is an evil and an extreme impatience as well as an extreme patience with social ills.