Is obesity a disease?

[MooCow]

Group trying to change public opinion on Obesity

So this group says that being fat is ok, and that there are no health risks associated with it. Are they wacked in the head?

My opinion: Yeah. I personally thinking being fat is totally gross, and don't understand people who are.

[Serious Paul]

If it is, America will be the first nation in the world to die from it. We're always number 1 baby!

[FlakJacket]

As something of a fat bastard, I have to concur on the fucked in the head verdict. Like the article says, some people may be obese and never develop any medical conditions due to it but they'd be the small minority. It's scientific and medical facgt that it can bring on a number of things and negatively impact your health. Not that I'm supporting the health nazis since they can be asshole in their own right, but being obese is wrong.

On the is it a disease question, I'd have to disagree with the Medicare decision to label it a disease. Some people might have medical conditions that heavily contribute to making them obese, but they're the disease. Most obese people simply shove too much of the wrong in their mouths without taking enough exercise. All their own fault.

[Buzzed]

So are you saying obesity should be labeled a mental disease instead of a physical disease? Makes sense, since eating right takes self discipline, which is mental control of your urges.

Wait a sec, there is already a food addiction disorder. Never mind, I guess it is already considered a mental disease.

[Cain]

If you want to get *very* technical about it, they're absolutely right. Being fat is not in-and-of-itself a health issue. It's the underlying fitness level that really matters. If a man has a 28% body fat percentage and does triathalons for fun, he's not unhealthy by any stretch of the imagination.

The problem is more of fitness that fatness, true enough. Naturally, the two are very closely linked; so that man I mentioned is something of a rarity. The "Fitness at any weight" concept is not a bad one; and honestly, carrying a few extra pounds is healthier than yo-yo dieting.

Still, it cannot be denied that most fat issues are due to a lack of fitness. Increase your fitness, 99.9% of the time you'll decrease your fat.

[FlameBlade]

Why can't being fat be both mental and health issue?

[crone]

Group trying to change public opinion on Obesity

So this group says that being fat is ok, and that there are no health risks associated with it. Are they wacked in the head?

My opinion: Yeah. I personally thinking being fat is totally gross, and don't understand people who are.

I think this is the kind of thing this group is protesting - the seamless transition from 'being overweight is a health issue' to 'being overweight is disgusting and repulsive'.

Sometimes you can shame someone into better behaviour, but often it makes them worse, instead.

I see lots of discussions on diets, nutrition and exercise and almost none on emotional eating, or similar. I don't know if that's because it's not very prevalent, or because people don't like talking about it. Whatever the startling percentage of overweight Americans (or Australians), how many of them have an eating disorder, or food issues, and how many just need to switch to diet soda?

[mrmooky]

I think it's necessary here to make a distinction between clinical obesity and being "fat". Wikipedia tells me that by current medical standards, Brad Pitt is overweight and Russell Crowe is obese.

*Edited for link repair.

[UncleJoseph]

Just take a look at the most indulgent societies, and you find the most obese people. I think we mentioned this in a past thread about meal portions in restaurants in Europer vs. USA. The U.S. has far more obese peolpe in it than any other country. Why? We over-eat way too much, and either don't have time to exercise properly, or are just too lazy to.

There are some cases of disease/illness related obesity. However, most of it is because we over-eat and under-exercise. Most of the time it has nothing to do with a mental or physical condition. We're fat because our lifestyles make it easy to get that way.

[Thorn]

Moo, you are wacked in the head. Largely because you're seeing things that aren't there. I didn't see any quotes from anyone saying they thought being fat was perfectly healthy. I did see people saying that obesity does not deserve the level of hysteria its received in the past few years, and I think they're absolutely right on that score.

Is obesity a risk factor for hypertension? Sure. But I have yet to see any clinical studies proving that obesity is a greater factor for hypertension than stress or smoking or family history or any number of other risk factors. And yet nobody's running around about how disgusting smokers are, or how awful it is that there are people working 80-hour weeks.

IMO, this is because there's a multi-billion dollar diet industry out to make a profit on people's fears regarding obesity, and there's also a monolithic health care industry that is trying to use obesity as a reason to refuse coverage to people, or at least raise their premiums based on their "dangerous lifestyle choices", the same way they do with smokers. (I can't remember my source, I'll post it if I do, but the height-weight charts of once-upon-a-time, and now the use of BMI is not something the health care industry came up with, but rather something the health /insurance/ industry introduced.)

Honestly, I think there is a high level of obesity in our young people, but I find myself wondering just how big this "obesity epidemic" in adults really is. Marilyn Monroe wavered between a size 12 and a size 16, all of which would put her in the overweight category, and possibly the obese category as well. And yet she was considered darn near perfect, once upon a time. So is the average adult really that much heavier? Or are we just that much more paranoid about it, now that we've got our nifty BMI to measure everyone against?

(NOTE: I don't think the BMI is worthless as a tool, but I think that there's a lot of cultural/social attitudes that are being mistaken for science these days, and I don't see how that's good for anyone. Consider that the hysteria regarding obesity has already been shown to increase behaviors such as yo-yo dieting, never mind true eating disorders. Research has shown that yo-yo dieting is just about as hard on a person's body as obesity is, add the stress of constant dieting, worrying about calories, beating oneself up for failure, then stressing even harder over doing "better" on the next diet, and how much has a person's risk for hypertension really been reduced? I suggest most people would be better served if we encouraged everyone to increase their activity levels, decrease their unnecessary stressors and in general promoted better health in all aspects of life, not just one's waistline. But so long as fat=bad in our culture, with little to no regard to anything else, then real health is going to be ignored in favor of just looking healthy.)

[lordhellion]

Man, I love those old Hight-Wieght charts. According to those, I'd have to have 0% body fat and lose about 20 pounds of muscle to make it down to my optimum weight!

[lorg]

A disease? I'm sure there are medical conditions that can contribute to obesity but then obesity is the "final" stage and not the actual disease, more of the result. But then they think alcoholism is a disease (which I personally think it complete bullshit). In these two cases classifying it as a diseases removes personal responsibility. Whatever happened to self control (not the Laura Branningan song) ?

I ain't thin, but I'm not orca fat, amercan obese or anything. Could I work out even more and watch what I eat? Yeah sure, but I like my weekly pizza, having a can of coke (or two) while working by my desk.

According to BMI I think I am diseased but my doctor says I'm ok even thou I could afford to shed weight, but then most people could.

[DV8]

If obesity isn't a disease, then why is alcoholism considered a disease? Aren't they both afflictions of compulsion and gluttony? Isn't that a disease? And if not, why? Why is ADD considered a disease but compulsive eating (usually as a result of depression) isn't? Of course it's a disease.

My opinion: Yeah. I personally thinking being fat is totally gross, and don't understand people who are.

Yes you do; you were overweight until not so long ago from what I understand. Of course you understand.

[lorg]

Why is alcoholism considered a disease? Did some virus force you to take to the bottle?


Talking about addictions;
Web addiction excuses conscripts in Finland

[DV8]

Why is alcoholism considered a disease? Did some virus force you to take to the bottle?

An addiction is not a disease? Or better yet, is a disease always an affliction of the body's pathology? And if so, is the mind not part of the body? Can the mind be diseased through a lack of strength willpower? Is not any situation that causes great physical or mental discomfort a disease?

[Subversive Agent]

Why can't being fat be both mental and health issue?

I think it's both. You can be fat from a eating disorder (you get depressed alot and stuff your mouth full of food to compensate) or you can be fat from a VERY wrong diet (lots of macdonalds) or you can be fat by having fucked up genes.

Exactly the same for booze (bad eating/social habits, genes, depression).

Why do people always try to look at any problem like it's black or white?

[DV8]

Usually because it's easy, or because it makes them look like they have strength of character and conviction.

[lorg]

Why is alcoholism considered a disease? Did some virus force you to take to the bottle?

An addiction is not a disease? Or better yet, is a disease always an affliction of the body's pathology? And if so, is the mind not part of the body? Can the mind be diseased through a lack of strength willpower? Is not any situation that causes great physical or mental discomfort a disease?

At some point in their life they decided to start drinking and got hooked on one or more substances and they lack the willpower to stop drinking. That to me is not a disease in the common sense, it is a mental problem or disorder if one just shouldn't take it down as a sign of low willpower or selfcontrol.

[Szechuan]

Marilyn Monroe wavered between a size 12 and a size 16, all of which would put her in the overweight category, and possibly the obese category as well. And yet she was considered darn near perfect, once upon a time. So is the average adult really that much heavier?

That was before vanity sizing. By today's standards she was about a size 7.

[DV8]

Why is alcoholism considered a disease? Did some virus force you to take to the bottle?

An addiction is not a disease? Or better yet, is a disease always an affliction of the body's pathology? And if so, is the mind not part of the body? Can the mind be diseased through a lack of strength willpower? Is not any situation that causes great physical or mental discomfort a disease?

At some point in their life they decided to start drinking and got hooked on one or more substances and they lack the willpower to stop drinking. That to me is not a disease in the common sense, it is a mental problem or disorder if one just shouldn't take it down as a sign of low willpower or selfcontrol.

So you answered the first of my five questions. What about the other four?

[3278]

"We're living in the middle of a witch hunt and fat people are the witches," said Marilyn Wann of San Francisco, a militant member of the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance. "It's gotten markedly worse in the last few years because of the propaganda that fatness, a natural human characteristic, is somehow a form of disease."

These people remind me of those San Fransican "AIDS-deniers," who say that AIDS isn't really a disease, but that it's been made up by "the establishment."

Being fat isn't natural. Fat is a tool used by the body for various environmental reasons. Find me an animal as fat as Cain or Paul [or me!] who isn't using it for insulation purposes or hibernation or something of the sort. Obesity is caused [with the exception of medical or psychological obesity, about which more later] by excess. Too much food, too little activity, frequently brought about by the over-success of a civilization; obesity starts to be a major problem when a society goes from surplus to excess, from "enough to support non-food-producers" to "more than enough to support producers of useless objects in new shapes that perform the same functions as objects with different shapes which are already owned by the customer." You know, Roman Empire, British Empire, America sort of stuff. Obesity is not a common social problem in, say, Bangladesh.

Now, there are different causes for obesity, and saying obesity is a disease is like saying depression is a disease; which kind of obesity? Medical obesity, brought about by glandular disfunction, or psychological obesity, brought about through compulsive behavior? Or do you mean the vastly, vastly, vastly more common form of obesity, "I'm fat 'cause I eat too much, and don't do anything; my body evolved for conditions under which I would have to collect and consume my own food every day, requiring massive expenditures of energy with comparatively little intake, and now I live in a society where a few farmers produce enough food for everyone, so there's enough basic survival capacity to support people in the society who sit on their asses and think up new marketing slogans all day."

Anyway, unless you're one of the X percent of people [where X is an exceedingly small percentage] who is obese for an actual medical or psychological reason, there's no excuse for being overweight, and it's really quite bad for you. It is not, however, a "disease," by which I mean a psychological or physical condition; it's a "social ill," if you must put a label to it. The cure for it is <b>don't eat so much and get off your ass.</b>

[lorg]

There where five? Well arn't we picky today. OK here goes, hope I catch a few more this time around otherwise you have to get more specific.

An addiction is not a disease? Or better yet, is a disease always an affliction of the body's pathology?

I'm sure some people belive that addiction is a disease, then there are those that don't think it is one. Personally I don't think it is one from the information I have available to me.

Is disease always an afflication of the bodys pathology? According to the dictionary it aught to be; The anatomical or functional manifestations of a disease.

So you feeling the compulsion to drink (alcoholism) is a disorder while when your liver takes the hit from all your drinking that is a disease. I don't know the name of the diseases you tend to get from excessive drinking in english right now, but I'm sure someone here can point them out to me, us and everyone else.

And if so, is the mind not part of the body?

If by Mind you mean a persons consciousness which comes from/resides in the brain then yes it is part of the body.

Can the mind be diseased through a lack of strength willpower?

I recon this is refered to as a depression, which is a mental disorder. The mind can and does affect the rest of the body and vice versa.

Is not any situation that causes great physical or mental discomfort a disease?

No. Example, if I break a leg that will hurt like hell which is well "great physical and mental discomfort" to put it mildy, but that doesn't make a broken leg a disease. It might attract and get diseased if nothing gets done about it, like it becoming gangrenous.

Why is ADD considered a disease but compulsive eating (usually as a result of depression) isn't?

ADD is not a disease, it is a disorder. It says so clearly in the name, Attention Deficit (Hyperactivity) Disorder. Why do they call it a disease? Don't know perhaps cause it sounds more cureable then a disorder and you can be pumped full of drugs to "cure" you.

Emotional, psychological and psychiatric afflictions are not diseases. They are mental problems or disorders if you will that are completely seperate from other REAL diseases like say a brain tumor. So if it affects your mind then it is a disorder but if you for example have something eating away at your actual brain then it is a disease, like Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease for example. But perhaps this is just all a matter of classification, well I still prefer to make a distinction between diseases and disorders. Ofcause I'm not an MD so it is only what I think, until proven otherwise.

[Daki]

Why is everyone getting hung up on calling Obesity a disease? My own <b>personal opinion</b> on the labeling it as such, it is a disease because it will cause serious repurcussions if not corrected. Obesity can be caused by physical and psychological factors (such as severe thyroid problems) but even in those extreme cases it can be dealt with.

Obesity and Overweight are two very different and distinct things. Overweight means you are carrying a bit more fat than is "optimal". Obese factors in weight, % body fat, blood pressure, activity level. Obesity is where your body has stored an over-abundance of fat that is now hampering the body in one or more ways (Range of motion, blood pressure, thyroid problems, diabetes, stress level [*], etc). Eventually, left unchecked these problems can become life threatening.

[*] - Stress Level refers to a test performed in most physicals where a person is asked to do a basic activity for a set amount of time. Usually it involves stepping up and down on a box for 60 seconds. Pulse and blood pressure are measure before and after the test. Too much stored fat will cause the muscles to over work, thereby forcing the heart to work even harder for a basic motion activity. Point being made is that obesity will cause stress on the body.

IMO, this is because there's a multi-billion dollar diet industry out to make a profit on people's fears regarding obesity, and there's also a monolithic health care industry that is trying to use obesity as a reason to refuse coverage to people, or at least raise their premiums based on their "dangerous lifestyle choices", the same way they do with smokers.

I would agree that there are companies using this to their advantage... but they wouldn't be able to do as such if there wasn't some semblence of a problem to begin with. There is most definitely a rising obesity level in the United States. The latest Physical Trainer course material published is probably the most conservative of all reports on obesity in the US and (for 2002 through July 2003) has the obesity rate at just a shade under 11%.



Moving away from the physical and health aspects of obesity... obesity acceptance is another matter entirely. No, I don't think anyone should have to try and crunch their bodies to fit a certain mold or size. If you are happy with your body, that's great. However, if you are at an obese level, I would not agree that it is okay, even if you are comfortable with how you look. Obesity is not a matter of looks, it's a health issue that can escalate into serious risks. I was also a trainer so my viewpoint on this is skewed by what I learned to become a trainer.

[Daki]

Related interesting reading: An article that gives a first hand account of morbid obesity and the "not-so-easy" process of gastic bypass surgery.

[Instant Cash]

Related interesting reading: An article that gives a first hand account of morbid obesity and the "not-so-easy" process of gastic bypass surgery.

My Friend had that done, and she looks great now.

She was having serious health issues because of her weight. To the point she needed ankle surgery because they couldn't support her anymore. They did one of them but said she couldn't have the other one done unless she lost some weight. So she got the bypass surgery and I think her ankles are ok. Which reminds me, I need to call her and see how she is doing.

[3278]

ADD is not a disease, it is a disorder. It says so clearly in the name, Attention Deficit (Hyperactivity) Disorder. Why do they call it a disease? Don't know perhaps cause it sounds more cureable then a disorder and you can be pumped full of drugs to "cure" you.

No, they call it a disease because it is a disease. That it is a disorder in no way implies that it isn't a disease. I would go so far as to say every disorder is a disease.

This conversation isn't useful until we all know what "disorder" and "disease" mean, because they don't mean what many people seem to think they mean.

[DV8]

I agree.

[Eliahad]

*ahem* Lorg, ADD is a disorder that is treatable through medication. It is not the only means of dealing with ADD, but for some people, it is the best method. People with ADD who go untreated for whatever reason, or are using ineffective treatments because they 'don't want to drug themselves' are actually denying themselves a good portion of their full potential. I have now been off and on meds twice, the first time I left was because 'I didn't want to be different.' Mainly, I didn't want to go to the nurses office at lunch time. I went back to the Psychs after finding that my grades were still suffering and I couldn't read a textbook for more than five minutes at a time. I'm back on those meds, and it's like there's a new me. Not because I'm different in anyway, but because I no longer have to use my mental horsepower to deal with my deficiencies, but instead use it to heighten my strengths. It's like the eight track that was usually playing in my brain was one. So, if you don't like meds, fine, whatever, don't downplay them because you think it's a copout, or an overdiagnosis or even just silly. I assure you that it is not.

As to Obesity, it's a disorder just like ADD is, but I wouldn't classify it as a disease. It's not caused by a virus or infection. It's not a cancer. It's treatable through a whole slew of different treatments. Many of them are common sense, like changing your diet (not dieting, but actually going to a nutritionist and finding effective, satisfying, meal plans) exercising, drinking more water even. It's a matter of getting the information, and having the strategy that works right for you. You can't have your friend's plan, because, well, metabolisms are different, personalities are different. Everything's unique to the person involved.

Now, America as a whole, I believe, has an emphasis on 'bigger = better' except, of course, for 'Sex appeal = firm, tight, toned, but big boobs and butt. Why, I don't know.' So we like oversize items, cars, soft drinks, 1 pounder TV dinners, but then at the same time we're accentuating fitness, and slimness, and anything above size 8 is bad. (An aside, I was in the Gap with Wireless, and we overheard someone make the comment, 'All of these are above size 8, who wears above a size 6? Really That's just gross.' Wireless, for those who don't know, is 6'1" and, well, a size 6 ain't gonna fit, even if they had it in tall. I got a rather hard arm squeeze for /that/ comment.) People seem to forget that the average size of women in America is a 14 or 16. That's a ways away from 6, or even 8.

It has to do with SUV, built Ford tough culture, I think. Actually, it probably goes all the way back to Manifest Destiny. We're America, we have the resources to build things faster, and the space to build them larger. Not for any particular reason, except that the space is there. We're the only country I know of where cars are bigger than the dorm rooms that people sleep in at college. Now, Canada doesn't have a space issue, except for the fact that once you get too far north, it becomes less hospitable to human life...but there's still a whole lot of space. Yet somehow, maybe it's their French and Native American upbringing, the've still found a way to hold onto the sensabilities that europe has. I went to Montreal and the only close to obese people I saw were american. There were more bikers in Montreal than there are in Boulder, and Boulder's pretty health concious and fit, and all that. So yay for America being prosperous and shit.

I don't want to down play that there are eating disorders out there. Because there are. And I think that obesity is a disorder in itself, because it leads to complications in life, just as ADD does. However, it's treatable, and should be treated not just at a personal level, but a cultural level as well.

[Eliahad]

Disorder and disease could be the same, if you use the Webster's dictionary definition. *shrug* If I had a medical text handy I'd look them up. Cain should, he could give us the definitions On the other hand, I don't think that really affects this discussion, at all. So what if they're the same? How does that change the treatment of the disease/disorder in anyway?

Disorders have always held more of a stigma, because of the word itself. 'You're out of order' you're not normal. Blah. A disease at least sounds like it's not your fault. Bleh.

[Daki]

It's not caused by a virus or infection. It's not a cancer.

Ah, but it can spread in a manner similar to a virus or infection. Whether it's a disorder or a disease does not affect the topic at hand, but obesity (more so, the factor that lead to obesity) can be spread from one person to another, particularly in families. If I child is raised in an environment where there is a lack of exercise and an overabundance of food and snacks that are constantly munched on, then there is a high probability the child will become obese.

[Eliahad]

Yeah, that's true, but that goes back to the cultural aspect of things Regardless, the disorder/disease aspect, in this case, only affects the stigma attached to the word.

[Marius]

My habit has always been to use 'syndrome' to refer to associated collections of symptoms, 'disorder' to refer to a particular named disruption in function - that is, a syndrome where the mechanical relationship between the symptoms is understood - and to reserve disease for those disorders with a known etiology. But that's just my understanding of the words. (Okay, so technically it's also pretty much correct, at least with regard to 'disease'.)

dis.ease 1. an interruption, cessation, or disorder of body functions, systems, or organs. SYN illness, morbus, sickness. 2. a morbid entitiy characterized usually by at least two of these criteria: recognized etiologic agent(s), identifiable group of signs and symptoms, or consistent anatomical alterations

dis.or.der a disturbance of function, structure, or both, resulting from a genetic or embryologic failure in development or from exogenous factors such as poison, trauma, or disease.

[lorg]

ADD is not a disease, it is a disorder. It says so clearly in the name, Attention Deficit (Hyperactivity) Disorder. Why do they call it a disease? Don't know perhaps cause it sounds more cureable then a disorder and you can be pumped full of drugs to "cure" you.

No, they call it a disease because it is a disease. That it is a disorder in no way implies that it isn't a disease. I would go so far as to say every disorder is a disease.

This conversation isn't useful until we all know what "disorder" and "disease" mean, because they don't mean what many people seem to think they mean.

Then why didn't they call it Attention Deficit Disease? I bet there is a difference.

Since you seem to be so in the know on the topic why don't you tell us what they mean or the difference between them are; You do this alot, start and then stop cause you don't feel like explaining something instead just ending with some snub comment.

Disease;
A pathological condition of a body part, an organ, or a system resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms.

Disorder;
A disturbance or derangement that affects the function of mind or body, such as an eating disorder or the abuse of a drug.


Eliahad, I didn't mean to imply that ADD couldn't be cured or alleviated with drugs, much like alcoholism can be "treated" with antabuse.

As you also mentioned I think it has alot to do with that "disturbed" part. Someone is not "normal", while a disease is more or less involuntary. Disturbed somehow sounds a bit less like that, like you are defective somehow (and you are, but then arn't we all in one way or another).

[MooCow]

Yes you do; you were overweight until not so long ago from what I understand. Of course you understand

Well, no I don't. I'm not sure why my being overweight would make me understand why people are overweight.

I topped out at around 225-230, and was at the time trying to do something about it. That weight was in fact only put on in the previous year or so, prior to that I was about what I am now 180-190 (overweight, but under the 20% body fat health limit).

When my efforts to lose weight consistently failed, I went to my doctor to find out why I was fat. It turned out I had a medical condition that was causing me to gain weight. Apparently, my thyroid had left some time prior to that to become a show girl in vegas (I hear it's doing very well). I got that corrected, and now I eat right (mostly), and make it a point to be relatively active. In other words, at no point was I fat and not doing something about it.

So my statement still stands. I do not understand these people who are fat, and do nothing about it. Why would you ever want to be fat?

Largely because you're seeing things that aren't there. I didn't see any quotes from anyone saying they thought being fat was perfectly healthy.

No direct quotes, but the article indicates that these people don't think that being fat is unhealthy. Now perhaps the article is giving the wrong impression, but they clearly state they feel you can be healthy and fat. I don't see that, and I don't think scientific evidence backs it up.

Why wouldn't you want medicare to declare obesity a disease? It opens up doors for people to receive assistance from the government in combating the problem. Is it a true disease? Eh... maybe not. But who cares what terminology they use, as long as it helps people be healthy?

And yet nobody's running around about how disgusting smokers are, or how awful it is that there are people working 80-hour weeks.

Have you been living under a rock? All over Chicago there are billboards from the anti-smoking people making smokers out to be complete freaking retards. As for the 80-hour work week, I haven't run into a person yet whose response to my work schedule isn't "Dear god man. That's insane! Your boss sucks ass."

[Daki]

And yet nobody's running around about how disgusting smokers are, or how awful it is that there are people working 80-hour weeks.

Have you been living under a rock? All over Chicago there are billboards from the anti-smoking people making smokers out to be complete freaking retards. As for the 80-hour work week, I haven't run into a person yet whose response to my work schedule isn't "Dear god man. That's insane! Your boss sucks ass."

Interesting parallel... smokers who smoke and say that it won't harm them. People who are obese saying they can be perfectly healthy at that weight. I see a lot of both nowadays. As a smoker, I know damn well that what I'm doing is causing/going to cause problems if I keep it up. That's why I will quit again.

[laughing Monkey]

Interesting parallel... smokers who smoke and say that it won't harm them. People who are obese saying they can be perfectly healthy at that weight. I see a lot of both nowadays. As a smoker, I know damn well that what I'm doing is causing/going to cause problems if I keep it up. That's why I will quit again.

Another one is that obese and smokers do indirect harm to people. Smokers do with the second hand smoke. Secondhand is bad for people with heart problem, stroke victims and so on. Obese with their family by either passing on the bad eating habits or going through lots of hospitals for all kinds of problems that cause stress family/friends.

Either way their is no good that comes from either.

[Nightsky]

I'd have to challenge the idea that obesity is a disease. It doesn't cause injury. Sure, they are less physically fit, but who isn't? Everyone has sime little physical flaw or short coming that keeps them from competing in the olympics. But obesity isn't caused by a pathogen or virus.

Does obesity put people at risk for health problems? Yes, but then again what doesn't? Breathing air can put you at a health risk. Think not? Oh, yeah. Smokers and second hand smoke. Can't forget about that. While we're on the air list let us not forget about the radioactive isotopes that have been floating around for the past 50 years from nuclear testing and plant meltdowns. Let's also not forget about ultraviolet rays from the sun that can cause skin cancer. Seems like everything causes cancer. I thought of a cure though. If people would stop breathing there would be no more cancer.

Now, I'm not an obese person. I'm a little fellow, but I am a smoker. As time goes on it seems like people are trying to make everyone fit into their 'ideal' range of body size/shape. Simple fact of the matter is that people aren't built all alike. For many years doctor offices were given these height to weight ratio charts. If you fell within the parameters of you were not over weight. If you did not, you were overweight or underweight. These things are complete bullshit. As most doctors now will tell you.

A person can be overweight and be perfectly healthy. A person can give up red meat, drinking, smoking, sunbathing and still die of cancer.

Smokers who smoke say it won't harm them. People who are obese saying they can be perfectly healthy at that weight.

Alright, I'm a smoking, and like Daki said I know it's harming me. I work in radiography and get more than my share of scatter radiation at my workplace. All in all, I figure I'll be dead of cancer eventually. Yes, people who are overweight can be perfectly healthy. One person's body may be better suited when having the extra fat to work with while another my not.

ADD is not a disease, it is a disorder.

Fun fact about ADD. If you followed the guidelines for diagnosing it, 90% of the population would have ADD.

obesity (more so, the factor that lead to obesity) can be spread from one person to another particularly in families

It's still not a virus and its not a pathogen. Therefore it is not a disease. You could probably argue that it is a disorder. Maybe if you stretch things you can say its a genetic disorder. But this is more of a 'nuture' thing. Or, result from a person's environment. Sure, a person may have the genetic predisposition to store lots of fat, but if the food isn't available they are not going to get fat. That can trickle down into how the child is raised.

But why is being overweight bad? Seriously. Like I said, you can be perfectly healthy and still die of a heart attack. You can be fat and have a heart attack. In the end you're going to die no matter what. So why should someone spend their life focusing on achieving the perfect body when they could be spending it doing something that they enjoy. Even if it is having the last slice of pie?

It's society. Society views "Thin is In" and "Fat is Out". Which, if I remember my history channel was just the opposite in Roman times when "Fat is Sexy" and all.

[Daki]

A person can be overweight and be perfectly healthy.

Overweight? Yes. Obese? Not very likely.

[Nightsky]

Where is the line between overweight and obese?

[Cain]

It's still not a virus and its not a pathogen. Therefore it is not a disease.

By that standard, neither are many forms of cancer. Some forms of cancer do spontaneously appear with againg, you realize. Other genetic disorders, like Lupis or Sickle-Cell anemia, would also not qualify as diseases under that standard.

The disease/disorder delineation is really very vauge, especially since medical terminology uses essentially the same terms for both. I wouldn't be harping on that if I were you. Is obesity a disease, even if it was caused by one's own behavior? Yes, in the same way that botulism or lung cancer can be considered diseases, even though both may be a direct result of one's personal habits. The good news is, if obesity is treated as a disease, then it will be dealth with clinically, and not just viewed as "a lack of willpower". 95% of all diets fail to keep the weight off, so it's not an issue of willpower. It is a serious medical issue, and deserves to be treated as such.

But again, you guys seems to be missing the point. Daki got it right in that true clinical obesity is when one's weight is negatively impacting one's health. Other than that, your fat percentage is merely correlated with health issues; it does not cause them. In fact, generally it's the other way around-- a lack of fitness causes an increase in fat. Being fat doesn't really *cause* any health issues, except at the high end-- it's the health issues that *make* you fat.

The people mentioned are absolutely right in that being fit at any weight is physiologically more desireable than a massive weight- or fat-loss regimen. If you're a male with 250 lbs at 5'8", and 25+% body fat, and can run a marathon without rest breaks, then you're in good shape and your fat isn't holding you back.

[Nightsky]

Maybe it's just me, but I can think of better things to spend research dollars on. We already spent billions curing hairloss, small breasts, and impotentcy. Obesity is the next cash cow.

You will never see a 'cure' for cancer. You will see 'treatments'. There's no money in making cures for cancer.

[Marius]

Yeah, I can't think of anyone who would pay actual money for a cure for cancer.

[Daki]

Where is the line between overweight and obese?

Depends on the person because they use several tests to determine it (forget the divisions that the BMI uses). A couple of good general rules:

Body Fat (for men) > 28% OR Body Fat (for women) > 32.5% ((Going off memory on the percentages. May be off by a few points. I'd say +/- 2%))

Physical Stress Test: Step up and down on a box for 60 seconds. If heart rate afterwards is at a cardio target or above (85% of maximum heart rate), then the weight is considered a detriment to the health. ((This is not a factor is cases of people who have a heart disorder))

[Nightsky]

The point is that drug companies can make more money by treating cancer. Why do you think no new antibiotics have been invented in the past few decades? Because it's damned expensive. The other part of the point is that not everyon gets cancer, but everyone wants to 'look better' so there are plenty of potential customers there.

[Marius]

The point is that drug companies can make more money by treating cancer. Why do you think no new antibiotics have been invented in the past few decades? Because it's damned expensive. The other part of the point is that not everyon gets cancer, but everyone wants to 'look better' so there are plenty of potential customers there.

Treating cancer is curing cancer. There's no "symptomatic treatment" for cancer.

New antibiotics have been invented. Where the hell did you get the idea that they hadn't?

Obesity treatments aren't about looking better. Small breasts don't give you heart disease. Obesity does.

[laughing Monkey]

I don't like classifying it as a disease. It almost gives people and excuse to use that as a crutch to get sympathy. I mean is smoking a disease? No.
Now do I think being obese is an epidemic…..yes. I do see more people that are not in shape and let them selves go. Not enough is being done to educate kids on how to eat healthy, not enough is done to enforce the importance of exercise in schools.

[Daki]

I don't like classifying it as a disease. It almost gives people and excuse to use that as a crutch to get sympathy

There is a large percentage of people who are overweight who do make or have excuses that they use as a crutch already. Labeling it a disease just gives them a common excuse and if it allows for them to get additional help to remedy the situation, then I am all for it.

[laughing Monkey]

I am not if it will cause an outbreak of people saying
"Its a disease, there is nothing I can do. " or
"Its not my fault I ate 14 big macs...the disease made me do it."
But if it will help....maybe.

[Estes]

..

[3278]

The people mentioned are absolutely right in that being fit at any weight is physiologically more desireable than a massive weight- or fat-loss regimen.

I don't think anyone said that. Certainly, it's not true, unless by "massive," you mean, "unhealthful." Being "fit" while being "fat," which is arguably impossible, is certainly less good for you than being "fit" while not being "fat," all other things remaining equal.

If you're a male with 250 lbs at 5'8", and 25+% body fat, and can run a marathon without rest breaks, then you're in good shape and your fat isn't holding you back.

Bwah-ha-ha! Someone, please show me a 5'8" 250 pound clinically obese man who can run a marathon without rest breaks. Cain, you're that size and you can't /walk/ 15 miles without rest breaks. How much more fit than you is someone likely to get without losing that 25 percent body fat? What do they do, drink butter while they're running?