Newsweek: Innocents Abroad

Marius · Post by **Marius** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:38 pm

Okay, more Americans should come over to Europe to see how things work here. That way it would free up a lot of jobs in the States for those legal/illegal aliens wanting to work there.

Oh, no doubt. Next time I'm unemployed and uncertain, I'll just move to Germany and hop on the end of an unemployment line.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:53 pm

On the flip side Angel, I get 12 paid holidays, barely do anything at work (most of the time) and I average 60 plus paid vacation days a year. I could do as many as well whats 500 hours?

I have full medical too. And I'm not even rich at all. I'm lower middle class.

Instant Cash · Post by **Instant Cash** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:00 pm

Angel wrote:Sometimes I have to wonder what the average American worker thinks she/he is getting in return for allowing (voting for) the Democrats and Republicans to rule over them in the way that they do.

What good comes for the Military-Industrial-Complex (or the welfare state)? Who benefits? Has the average worker really gained anything other than access to a deeper credit debt? Big money isn't everything, and the projects that are "in the best interests" of the people don't seem to be on the agenda of any major politican in America.

At least in some European countries, if the populous is outraged about something that their elected officials have then their protests are actually heard. In America the only voice that is heard is the one which speaks in dollars.

If I were still in America I would be depressed over the apparent lack of empowerment that the people have, and America is supposedly the cornerstone of democracy, a government of the people, by the people, for the people... and it's people have lined up to sell their freedom and best interests for nothing more than a few pennies which were borrowed from the rich.

It is something that keeps me up late at night.

Beware the generalizations

3278 · Post by **3278** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:09 pm

Angel wrote:If I were still in America I would be depressed over the apparent lack of empowerment that the people have, and America is supposedly the cornerstone of democracy, a government of the people, by the people, for the people... and it's people have lined up to sell their freedom and best interests for nothing more than a few pennies which were borrowed from the rich.

That's the trick, though, you see: it's what the people have consistantly voted for, what they've consistantly chosen. They've exchanged their rights for government benefits, so they don't have to be responsible for as many things. The government isn't the bad guy in this situation: it's the people who have chosen the government, and allowed it to do the things it's done. I think it's sad, too.

Instant Cash · Post by **Instant Cash** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:14 pm

3278 wrote: That's the trick, though, you see: it's what the people have consistantly voted for, what they've consistantly chosen. They've exchanged their rights for government benefits, so they don't have to be responsible for as many things. The government isn't the bad guy in this situation: it's the people who have chosen the government, and allowed it to do the things it's done. I think it's sad, too.

But do we really have a choice? Usually when I go to the voting booth it is "the lesser of two evils" style voting, which sucks a bag of dicks.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:19 pm

A choice that sucks is still a choice.

Instant Cash · Post by **Instant Cash** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:27 pm

Serious Paul wrote:A choice that sucks is still a choice.

True dat. I guess I am asking too much to actually have competent honest people running things.

That really wouldn't work in DC.

MooCow · Post by **MooCow** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:35 pm

You get what you pay for. The people you want are off making 10 times as much in private enterprise.

Chopper · Post by **Chopper** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:40 pm

The glass seems to be half empty in this thread. I am glad I don't have any one of you people as my roomate.

America doesn't suck, dispite how cool it is to say that America does suck.

Marius · Post by **Marius** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:43 pm

Quiet, you. My life sucks, so America must suck.

Err, no . . . wait. My life is great. Yeah, that's it. My life is great, so America must suck. Because somebody's life sucks, and a just and loving God . . . err, I mean 'country' - a just and loving country wouldn't allow life to suck for some people.

Chopper · Post by **Chopper** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:49 pm

A loving country would not allow their own citizens to get blown up.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:51 pm

Instant Cash wrote:But do we really have a choice? Usually when I go to the voting booth it is "the lesser of two evils" style voting, which sucks a bag of dicks.

The government is "of the people, for the people, by the people." If you don't like your choices, you change them, either by finding a better choice and pressing that person into service, or by being a better choice yourself. In America, we've forgotten - or never knew - that.

Liniah · Post by **Liniah** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:52 pm

3278 wrote:The government is "of the people, for the people, by the people." If you don't like your choices, you change them, either by finding a better choice and pressing that person into service, or by being a better choice yourself. In America, we've forgotten - or never knew - that.

How very idealistic of you, 32.

---------

Well, as far as going to the US is concerned, you can actually get a tourist visa for quite some time. Also, there are plenty of internships available- some paid and some not. For all those Euros who think it's so easy for Americans to come over, as I see it, it's just as easy for you to do the same.

MooCow · Post by **MooCow** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:14 pm

Also, there are plenty of internships available- some paid and some not.

Except that doesn't guarantee you a student visa. Ohio State, as well as several other universities, has had some severe problems in the past few years getting their interns because the state department refuses to issue them Visas.

3278 · Post by **3278** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:57 pm

Liniah wrote:How very idealistic of you, 32.

Idealism can be very, very practical, if you choose to make it that way.

lorg · Post by **lorg** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 7:52 am

As previously mentioned the reason why I don't do 6 months in the states is that getting a green card is a bitch. It does appear that the only real way to do it would be to start working for an international company over here and eventually transfer. You could also take part in that stupid green card lottery thing they have, but from what I have heard the odds of winning one there is on a lottery scale.

So if you want to get in you might as well run across the rio.

There have been a lot of talk from various universities that they have a harder time now to attract foreign students, probably due to visa problems and also the current political climate. Talked to the student service people where I work a few days ago and apparently we have trippled the amount of applications from foreign students for the next semester.

Instant Cash · Post by **Instant Cash** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:30 pm

Chopper wrote:The glass seems to be half empty in this thread. I am glad I don't have any one of you people as my roomate.

America doesn't suck, dispite how cool it is to say that America does suck.

I never said America sucks. I said the government is a steaming pile of horse dung. I actually like the states, there are some very pretty and nice places to live.

Liniah wrote:Well, as far as going to the US is concerned, you can actually get a tourist visa for quite some time. Also, there are plenty of internships available- some paid and some not.

Yes, but this requires living on very low funds and losing my job. Sorry but I honestly /like/ having money to you know, do things. I know, how very capitalist of me.

Van Der Litreb · Post by **Van Der Litreb** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 4:11 pm

Serious Paul wrote:Europeans: DV8, Twisted Sister, lorg, Flak, Toryu, Angel ( I think) Eva, Veed, TLM and a couple of others...

Don't forget Marius.

Instant Cash · Post by **Instant Cash** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 4:17 pm

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 6:23 pm

I'll be the first to ask.

Is Rochester/Buffalo New York in Europe? 'Cause otherwise we're keeping him.

Angel · Post by **Angel** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 6:35 pm

Serious Paul wrote:Well core regular posters that I know for sure:

Americans: 3278, Serious Paul, Daki, Gunny, ak404, Slavation 122, MissTeja, MooCow, Cipher (I think), Scamp, Buzzed, JetPlane, FlameBlade, Eliahad, Liniah(When she's here ) Jeff, Kai, Marius, Bethyaga, Cain,Instant Cash, Jaded, Cash, Caz, Thorn etc...

Canadians: Adam, Szechuan, I know there are more

Aussies: JTB, Lady Jestyr, Mr. Mooky , Crone, SoWhat, a few others I am sure.

Europeans: DV8, Twisted Sister, lorg, Flak, Toryu, Angel ( I think) Eva, Veed, TLM and a couple of others...

I know I missed a bunch.

I count as European? I'm an American living in Europe, but if you're going to give me another nationality make it Canadian Babe!

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 6:58 pm

Like I said I knew I had some wrong...

Liniah · Post by **Liniah** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:57 am

Instant Cash wrote:
Liniah wrote:Well, as far as going to the US is concerned, you can actually get a tourist visa for quite some time. Also, there are plenty of internships available- some paid and some not.
Yes, but this requires living on very low funds and losing my job. Sorry but I honestly /like/ having money to you know, do things. I know, how very capitalist of me.

Dude, not you, people going to the US.

Serious Paul · Post by **Serious Paul** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:20 am

Well even living in the US isn't cheap. Plus now adays getting VISAs isn't like it used to be.

Eva · Post by **Eva** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:37 am

Serious Paul wrote:I'll be the first to ask.

Is Rochester/Buffalo New York in Europe? 'Cause otherwise we're keeping him.

I'll fight you for it. ;o)

Instant Cash · Post by **Instant Cash** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:57 pm

Eva wrote:
Serious Paul wrote:I'll be the first to ask.

Is Rochester/Buffalo New York in Europe? 'Cause otherwise we're keeping him.
I'll fight you for it. ;o)

Oooooo, CAGE MATCH!