A topic about gaming

[Kai]

So you wanted a topic...

Pen and paper RPGs are on the decline in favor of mostly MMOs, the console market, and other social games. With things like Team Fortress and Left 4 Dead providing cooperative social gameplay, consoles letting you solo game and still chat over Playstation Home and Xbox live and the like, and things like City of Heroes Mission Architect, can electronic gaming replace pen and paper/PB3? Do you think bonds made through online gaming are as strong as in person? Do you think having 3D avatars in MMOs helps or hurts roleplay as opposed to doing it in person, and what about voice chat?

[Crazy Elf]

A computer game can never replace actual tabletop role playing, as a computer game is limited by its programming. Tabletop RPG's have no such limitations. I played WoW, probably the best known online RPG, and found that there was absolutely no character interaction. It was all people associating with people via the medium of a 3D character.

[Serious Paul]

Pen and paper RPGs are on the decline in favor of mostly MMOs, the console market, and other social games.

Depends on who you ask. I keep hearing this, and while the market's changed it certainly doesn't seem anywhere near dead at all.

[Crazy Elf]

It may not be dead, but I am wondering if it's had a very significant effect on sales.

[Kai]

It has, the market's been on the decline for several years now. You can see it most in the brick and mortar stores shutting down, but also the convention attendance and publisher release schedules, there just isn't as many books coming out at there once was.

WoW I actually think is a terrible place to look for RP as its the lowest common denominator, its like looking for RP in Halo, but I've seen and been involved in some great RP in CoH and for a time Vanguard, friends of mine even get some RPing done in EVE of all the weird places. I find it far more satisfying from an RP perspective to portray a character, but it lacks something socially for me.

[Crazy Elf]

Hmm, I'd still like to see the stats on the decline in sales. Although it may be that they're appearing to go down, I'm pretty sure that things such as Baldur's Gate and the like were actually a very positive thing for sales, at least for D&D. If people keep publishing books, then they are selling.

[Serious Paul]

Keep in mind that RPG's have always been a Niche market, and will always be a niche market. They'll never compete with more mainstream hobbies, or stuff.

The market as a whole is taking some serious shots right now, so it's no surprise that Brick and Mortar stores are closing-that's pretty much true of everything these days. (Especially in niche markets, ask Uncle Joseph how many people tried their hands at selling tactical equipment.)

The market is shifting, and may shrink even more, but that-to me-is different than death. Everyone gets leaner when times are tough.

[DV8]

I don't think MMORPGs and RPGs are mutually exclusive, just like it wasn't mutually exclusive with CRPGs like Fallout or Baldur's Gate. Computer based RPGs satisfy a completely different need than RPGs do. Just like RPGs satisfy a different need than LARPs do. I think you might have some fringe gamers that did RPGs due to a lack of computer based RPGs who might have switched, but the core of the gamers in each group finds him- or herself there because of the unique aspect that medium has to offer. There's no social element in computer-based RPGs, just like there's no physical element in (computer-based) RPGs which is a need that LARPs satisfy.

[Crazy Elf]

That being said, Deev, the market probably still has taken a hit. A lot of people that couldn't get what they've no found in computer RPGs were probably getting that hit from the tabletop experience instead. Explains why tabletop gaming has changed significantly in recent times, as I've seen fewer munchkins running about at conventions and the like... not that I've actually been to that many.

[Serious Paul]

For the record I don't think conventions provide an accurate "slice" of the market.

They generally happen once, maybe twice a year-and generally it's more about the introduction of new products, and sell stuff. People tend to save up money, and unless they're local things like GenCon are just too expensive most gamers I know, not to mention hard to get to with kids, a job, and other commitments.

i think the most accurate statement people could make about the gaming hobby is that people don't really know much about it. Sure I know people online, and in person, a few of them even write and sell games. But there's never been a market study like we've seen in other markets.

[DV8]

That being said, Deev, the market probably still has taken a hit. A lot of people that couldn't get what they've no found in computer RPGs were probably getting that hit from the tabletop experience instead. Explains why tabletop gaming has changed significantly in recent times, as I've seen fewer munchkins running about at conventions and the like... not that I've actually been to that many.

The market has taken a hit we assume, and the only argument to support that in this thread is that brick and mortar stores have closed (unless I've overlooked something, which is entirely possible.) That's a trend that has been going on for years, well past the surge of MMOs and seemed to coincide more with the rise of online shopping rather than anything else. Also, could it not simply be a trend-thing? We're a people of convenience and short attention spans, and that just doesn't seem to go hand in hand with role playing games.

[Crazy Elf]

Hmm, both good points. Hell, a sociologist could do a lot of very interesting research that's not at all lucrative into this market, I'm sure of it.

[DV8]

I actually kind of like the fact that it's not so popular. (Saying this from my very comfortable position of having had a stable group for well over a decade.)

[Heavy_D]

I think that in part has to do that a lot of people have difficulty in grasping the concept. When asked I usually try and explain it as a combination of a stageplay without a stage and a game without a board. Still, most people simply don't understand what could be so much fun in a game you can't see

[Serious Paul]

That's funny. I always explain it like writing a book, except instead of the author controlling the characters, you the players do. Heh-even gamers can't agree on the definition of the game, no wonder other people can't!

[3278]

This discussion keeps being had, at various forums I frequent, despite no one having any evidence that RPG sales are declining, or that computer games are expanding at the expense of RPGs. I think some basic logic can tell you there's been some consumption of the RPG market as a result of computer games, but there's no real evidence to suggest it's any worse than, say, sales of footballs. [People don't play as much football anymore, right, because they're busy inside playing computer games.]

[3278]

It's worth noting that the 4e PHB, DMG, and PHBII have all hit the Wall Street Journal bestseller list.

[Crazy Elf]

I figured they would. It was my assumption that the sales of D&D would have increased as a result of the computer game expansion, not decreased. It's more advertising for them, in the end.

Oh, and I just purchased the first edition board game and the expansion for it where you fight the Goblin King. Totally fucking awesome. Elf, Dwarf and Halfling are all classes.