[No flames]Cain/--cain--

[JohnnyRico]

They don't have to. This is not Live Journal or DSF.

Fair enough. What if he wants it to be?

Then let him wander over to LiveJournal or the DSF, and stop messing with out board.

[crone]

Just to make it clear, I'm not speaking for Cain.

Then let him wander over to LiveJournal or the DSF, and stop messing with out board.

It is as much his board as anybody's, isn't it?

[Kitt]

Just for a moment, lets consider the board a public park. You enjoy going there, you like sitting on the benches, watching the fountain, pushing your kids on the swing set, you know. Park things.
Then, one day, when nobody's looking, someone shits on the benches, replaces the water in the fountains with some flammable liquid and sets it aflame, and busts up the swing set. You'd kinda be pissed and want that person's head on a platter, right?
Same concept, except without the parkety connotations.

Also, I apologize if that's exceedingly flame-like. I thought about it, counted to 10, and couldn't figure out any other way of saying that, but I had to say it somehow.

[Spiral]

Wow. I must have missed something huge.

[JohnnyRico]

Wow. I must have missed something huge.

Just go back to the previous page and check out some of Cain's later posts, you know, the ones with the scroll bars underneith. Then go into the Mars thread in this same forum, starting at the bottom of page three and well into page four. You'll see what you missed, although the impact isn't quite the same since Wildfire's managed to slap together some code for a scrollbar in the actual posts. And no, I'm not complaining in the least.

[Ghotty]

So...Wait, we have to respect each other now?

[Cain]

I will also edit out the pi-string in Word Association.

Then I do not accept.

Oh, shall I go and put the pi-string back? Or shall I read it as: "I accept your good-faith offer as a sign of forward progress; however you have much more to do before we reach an accord."

*People might wonder why I make such a big deal out of this [beyond Cain's manipulation of words to somehow make "fifty dollar bill" mean "fifty fake dollars"]. I hope everyone understands that while perhaps fifty dollars doesn't mean much to you, to me it means food for three or four months.

You raise a point. I'll see about sending you some Safeway cards, or whichever grocery store you prefer. Despite the fact that I don't like your arguing style these days, if it makes the difference between starvation for you, I will help. Which grocery store do you use? Do you even have Safeways in Michigan?

He doesn't do that, though. He continues the escalation. Why? Because - get this - Cain comes here to vent his agression. I mean, we know that for a fact: he's made it very clear, in no uncertain terms, that he comes here for that reason, that he fights with people for that reason. How can you go someplace specifically to blow off steam and then be surprised when you get steam burns?

Right now, I could care less about myself. My protest is about the hypocricy in the Bulldrek goals. If you're truly interested in free speech, you need to be tolerant of all viewpoints. As a community, you need to accept this.

I didn't use to raise the stakes so much. If you think back, you'll remember as much. I changed in response to the boards changing, and becoming less tolerant. Then, certain events occured to cause me to lose respect for Bulldrek as a whole. Now, it doesn't do much for me anymore, except as a place for those huge arguments. For a long time now, I've felt that huge arguments is not only what I'm going to get regardless, but what the community as a whole wants.

Just for a moment, lets consider the board a public park. You enjoy going there, you like sitting on the benches, watching the fountain, pushing your kids on the swing set, you know. Park things.
Then, one day, when nobody's looking, someone shits on the benches, replaces the water in the fountains with some flammable liquid and sets it aflame, and busts up the swing set. You'd kinda be pissed and want that person's head on a platter, right?
Same concept, except without the parkety connotations.

Nice, now let's try my analogy.

You set up a place as a public speaking forum. People can go there can converse on whatever topic they feel like, and the podium is open to all. But if people start making unpopular speeches, the same people who "guarantee" your free speech start throwing vegetables and shouting obsenities, what can you do? You can leave, or you can fillibuster.

NO.HE.IS.NOT.

He is the only one armed.

Um, Paul? Anyone can find the first 50,000 or so digits of Pi on a google search. (Finding the 100 million discovered to date takes a bit more doing.) I'm not the only one "armed"-- some people are armed with threats and obsenities, others are armed with distraction tactics and insults. I'm armed with pi. The difference is that I'm the first one to call it a food fight.

No one asked him to. He is also not pointing anything out. He is being destructive, and threatening us.

I'm hardly threatening anything. If you can have insulting signatures, on a forum dedicated to scientific debate, I can certainly have a section of one of the monst important numbers known to us.

On the other hand, a Denial of Service attack would be appending offensive memory-wasting images into each of my posts. Or, multi-posting a hundred thousand digits of pi to every thread. Or even sending 97 obscene and insulting PMs to a person. All of those waste server space and power.

Yup. Why is that hard to accept? Where is his consideration for others? How does he jsutify his behavior? He doesn't. He can't. He won't.

Ask yourself the same question. What gives you the right to start offering physical threats? I know you're just blowing off steam, but still....

[MooCow]

If you can have insulting signatures, on a forum dedicated to scientific debate, I can certainly have a section of one of the monst important numbers known to us.

Where the fuck did that come from?

[Ghotty]

Right now, I could care less about myself. My protest is about the hypocricy in the Bulldrek goals. If you're truly interested in free speech, you need to be tolerant of all viewpoints. As a community, you need to accept this.

By tolerant, you mean allow you to express these viewpoints? Correct, then. Yes, we must allow all viewpoints to be expressed.

However, do I have anyreason to tolerate what you're saying. I think you're full of crap, with this statement. And that's MY viewpoint. Respect it.

I didn't use to raise the stakes so much. If you think back, you'll remember as much. I changed in response to the boards changing, and becoming less tolerant. Then, certain events occured to cause me to lose respect for Bulldrek as a whole. Now, it doesn't do much for me anymore, except as a place for those huge arguments. For a long time now, I've felt that huge arguments is not only what I'm going to get regardless, but what the community as a whole wants.

In an experiment in Tolerance, I would like you to go to DSF, and pi-bomb them. Then go to Chromiates Warhammer Forum, and pi-bomb them. Go to any forum, and pi-bomb them. I wish to see how our intolerance compares to others. This is your homework, and I'd like atleast 5 examples from you.

You set up a place as a public speaking forum. People can go there can converse on whatever topic they feel like, and the podium is open to all. But if people start making unpopular speeches, the same people who "guarantee" your free speech start throwing vegetables and shouting obsenities, what can you do? You can leave, or you can fillibuster.

OR you can simply talk calmly, and watch as others either continue to be fuckwits.

Um, Paul? Anyone can find the first 50,000 or so digits of Pi on a google search. (Finding the 100 million discovered to date takes a bit more doing.) I'm not the only one "armed"-- some people are armed with threats and obsenities, others are armed with distraction tactics and insults. I'm armed with pi. The difference is that I'm the first one to call it a food fight.

I don't buy that. You have attacked the boards, harming others, to achieve some goal.

Question, how do you feel about accidental bombings? You know, so called collateral damage, that which is inflicted by our military on civilains.

I'm hardly threatening anything. If you can have insulting signatures, on a forum dedicated to scientific debate, I can certainly have a section of one of the monst important numbers known to us.

SSt is not, to my knowldege, devoted to scientific debate. It's a forum devoted to discussion. Not scientific debate.

And in addition, the insulting signatures are not causing computers to crash, or interfering with my enjoyment of the board. The sacred number is.

[Serious Paul]

Oh, shall I go and put the pi-string back? Or shall I read it as: "I accept your good-faith offer as a sign of forward progress; however you have much more to do before we reach an accord."

No read it as he does not accept. Nor does any one else.

Right now, I could care less about myself. My protest is about the hypocricy in the Bulldrek goals.

Welcome to the real world. Of which Bulldrek is often times a representation of, and often times it is not. No one asked for you to help us. No one wants your help.

If you're truly interested in free speech, you need to be tolerant of all viewpoints. As a community, you need to accept this.

Are you so blind? Free speech includes intolerant speech Dave. As a community we do accpet this. YOU do not.

I didn't use to raise the stakes so much. If you think back, you'll remember as much. I changed in response to the boards changing, and becoming less tolerant.

Thats your opinion, and one that is quite obviously shared by less than few. Even people who have supported your right to protest, of which I was one, no longer feel you are entitled to this boards good will.

Then, certain events occured to cause me to lose respect for Bulldrek as a whole.

So what?

I lose respect for people every day, does that mean I get to beat them?

Now, it doesn't do much for me anymore, except as a place for those huge arguments.

Because YOU have allowed yourself to be drawn intot hat, and continue it. Other people realize when they are using failing tacks and change.

For a long time now, I've felt that huge arguments is not only what I'm going to get regardless, but what the community as a whole wants.

So if the community as a whole wants it, whom are you to object? This isn't a play ground. This isn't Plato's the republic. This isn't DSF. We don't ban people. We don't even edit the content of your post. EVER.

Even when you break out board WE respect YOU.

Has your PI beeen removed by any of us? No, right?

Nice, now let's try my analogy.

You set up a place as a public speaking forum. People can go there can converse on whatever topic they feel like, and the podium is open to all.

Including hate speech, silly speech, pictures of boobies, and a host of nonserious topics. Heck we even have a forum dedicated to madness.

But if people start making unpopular speeches, the same people who "guarantee" your free speech start throwing vegetables and shouting obsenities, what can you do? You can leave, or you can fillibuster.

Thats one option. There are others you know that right? Also do you think you are the only cat here to take pie in the face?

Um, Paul? Anyone can find the first 50,000 or so digits of Pi on a google search. (Finding the 100 million discovered to date takes a bit more doing.) I'm not the only one "armed"-- some people are armed with threats and obsenities, others are armed with distraction tactics and insults. I'm armed with pi. The difference is that I'm the first one to call it a food fight.

My insults don't break the board.

Does it take you longer to open a thread when I write DICK in it? No? Does it mess up your formatting? No? I fail to see your remarks as relevant.

By the way threats and obscenities are protected under free speech. You are amongest the most Liberal NAZI's I know. THe reverend in your former signature would be so proud to know how anti free speech you are.

I'm hardly threatening anything.

Well thats obviously false. If even one person feels threatened then you are.

If you can have insulting signatures, on a forum dedicated to scientific debate

Where the hell do you get that idea? Dedictaed to what? I give up you are obviously insane.

All of those waste server space and power.

None of which happened until you started it. Hmm I see a pattern.

Ask yourself the same question. What gives you the right to start offering physical threats? I know you're just blowing off steam, but still....

Because my speech is protected and free. And because despite the intensity of said words, none of them deny you service. Offend? Yes. Bother? Yes. Break your browser? No. Delay your connection? No.

Its obvious to me you won't see any version of events but your own. Its obvious to me you want this board to become DSF, complete with Admins who watch our every move.

It won't happen.

[3278]

I will also edit out the pi-string in Word Association.

Then I do not accept.

Oh, shall I go and put the pi-string back? Or shall I read it as: "I accept your good-faith offer as a sign of forward progress; however you have much more to do before we reach an accord."

Neither, by my recommendation. My intent, if you're interested, was to state that I do not accept the terms of your revised proposal. All of the "protests" need to be removed for me to accept, so that everyone can browse every thread, and we can remove the unnecessary modifications to the board which have such negative effects as adversely effecting display of every thread and altering the basic usage of keystrokes in browsers. I don't think it's too much to ask that you remove your vandalism; do you?

Of course, you're under no obligation to do so; I am simply saying that these are my terms.

You raise a point. I'll see about sending you some Safeway cards, or whichever grocery store you prefer.

No. You can, however, see about sending me the fifty dollars you so obviously owe me. You wagered, you lost, you denied losing but could not defend your position in any way, you promised payment if I posted my name and address, I did so, and then you claimed that you had, in fact, intentionally decieved me, and intended to send only fake money. You owe me fifty dollars, and I would like it as soon as possible. If you can send Safeway cards, you can send a check, a money order or cash. Thank you.

Right now, I could care less about myself.

If you are speaking for anyone else - which you must be doing if you are not protesting on your own behalf - could you please indicate which users you are speaking for, and show that they desire you to protest and negotiate on their behalf?

My protest is about the hypocricy in the Bulldrek goals. If you're truly interested in free speech, you need to be tolerant of all viewpoints. As a community, you need to accept this.

Free speech does not require tolerance; in fact, as your protest shows, intolerance [as in the intolerance you're showing toward intolerance] is emphatically allowed here. We allow all viewpoints to be aired, including viewpoints that are insulting or intolerant. "Free speech" doesn't mean "nice speech." Free speech allows someone to come here and say they hate niggers, and someone else to say that people who hate niggers should be shot in the head. It means people are free to insult you, berate you, belittle you, or otherwise demean you. It also means that you are free to post however many digits of pi you wish, unless and until a majority vote decides otherwise. We are not stating you may not protest; obviously, your protest has been allowed. We are asking you to please remove the content which is obstructing other people's usage of the board. Will you do that?

[Thorn]

You know what? This is going to be inflammatory. You've been warned.

Cain, if you're so goddamn interested in working things out, yadda yadda bullshit yadda, how come you continually ignore posts from people who are trying to be reasonable, trying to work toward some kind of fucking conclusion to this whole mess, and instead focus solely on butting heads with 32?

I realize that my post got buried under a lot of other crap, but you know what? If I were having some sort of issue with a whole crowd of people, and there were one or two voices of semi-reason amid all the trash-talking bullshit, I'd ignore the bullshit and respond to the people trying to be reasonable - try to reason back, that kind of thing. But you... instead you ignore everyone who tries to engage you in fucking rational discussion and then wonder why you're widely perceived as being little more than a childish troll.

Hell, back in the fucking Hard Work thread I (and many others) tried to address what appeared to be a miscommunication between the principals involved. Did anyone notice? Did anyone pay any attenion? No, of course not. Why try to reach any sort of accord when there's goddamn dick-swinging to do?

You claim to want maturity, you claim to want civility, you claim to want calm, rational discussion. But when presented with it, you ignore it in favor of going back to your childish tit-for-tat games with 32.

You claim to want a particular kind of behavior out of Bulldrek, but then when presented with it, you ignore it. You know, Mr. I-Know-So-Fucking-Much-About-Psychology, there's a little theory out there about positive rein-fucking-forcement, and perhaps you'd have better goddamn results if you tried using it once in a while. But no, instead you only reply to those people who are being inflammatory or threatening or whatever-the-hell-else you don't like, and then wonder why people stop bothering trying to deal with you on a rational fucking level.

Because I've only got so much time, and only so much energy, motherfucker, and if my every effort to resolve things goes un-fucking-noticed, then I'm going to stop wasting my resources on a shitbrick like yourself any longer.


*deep breathing*

Eli and others, I apologize. I know this was meant to be flame-free and I tried, I really did. But... I just couldn't pull it off.

Maybe it's time for a breather. Sorry.

[FlameBlade]

I heart Thorn. Well said. That was what I am thinking at the same time.

Based on a lot of posts, I felt that a lot of people were being ignored, especially when their opinions are something worthy to look at. There is simply /no/ way to have a civilized discussion...until everyone is included, not ignored. Because with two people going at each other in heat of hategasm can easily drown out valid opinions of others.

[Eliahad]

S'alright, it was dying anyway, might as well go out in a nuclear blast than build to a ragingi inferno.

[3278]

My PM box is always open for suggestions as to actions I should and should not be taking, by the way, and I read everything I'm sent...even if sometimes, like a bad bad boy, I don't reply. The current situation is certainly no exception; I welcome input.

[Kitt]

Nice, now let's try my analogy.
You set up a place as a public speaking forum. People can go there can converse on whatever topic they feel like...But if people start making unpopular speeches, the same people who "guarantee" your free speech start throwing vegetables and shouting obsenities...

Generally speaking, the shouting of obscenities and booing comes long before the throwing of vegetables. Now, let's assume that nobody in the crowd is armed in any form other than their voices. The speaker can:
a) Stop making speeches about topics they know are unpopular and will be met with ridicule
b) Continue with the speeches, adding here and there a playful jab right back at the people making fun of them, or
c) bomb the fucking place.
Obviously, choice a doesn't exactly accomplish much. However, it gets the speaker out of the line of fire. Choice c obviously isn't a good choice, because after the survivors of the bombing beat the everloving shit out of the speaker, the cops drag him away and slap his ass in jail where he lives with a large, gay man named Bubba and has no chance of parole. Meanwhile, choice b gives the speaker to:
1) Say what he wants to
2) Get back at the people who disagree with him without hurting anyone, and
3) know that he is the better person for not folding and not killing people.

But onto more important points. You want respect. You don't like being made fun of, or called names, or getting proverbial tomatoes and cabbages lobbed at your head. K, fine. Just one thing: as long as someone is here, someone else will be made fun of. I'm called "a woman of loose morals, specifically regarding sexual relationships" on almost a daily basis (in so many words.) because of the way I post. Want proof?
<a href="http://www.bulldrek.com/viewtopic.php?t=5952" target="_blank"> Mine is the 24th reply. Then read Moo's reply to mine. </a> Need more?
<a href="http://www.bulldrek.com/viewtopic.php?t=151&start=5400" target="_blank"> Read anything on this page. The connotations say it all. </a> And just to make sure that we're following each other here, I add for you one more thread in which I am made fun of in some way.
<a href="http://www.bulldrek.com/viewtopic.php?t=5261" target="_blank"> Go on and read Sin's post after mine. I dare ya. </a>
Now, while the last one was a bit of a stretch, it still does show that I get called a whore or something similar, or at least it is implied that I am a whore or someone else of lacking moral values. But I haven't gone and made it difficult for people to use the forum, nor have I, to my knowledge at least, made anyone want me banned/dead. Why? you ask. Because I don't like to interfere with what people like to do, unless it's hurting some animal or fucking up my life or the lives of my friends. I also don't get all pissy every time someone makes a comment that contradicts mine.

Another thing. I've heard that your debate responses are lacking in the back-uppage area. I wouldn't know, coz I don't bother reading them, most times. I try to stay out of the philosophical debate threads since I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm 17. I know jack shit about the world. Sure, I'm an opinionated, pushy, loud-mouthed, smartass, know-it-all, New York style, punk teenager who thinks she's all that and a bag of chips as well as "deep" and too smart to be where she is, but I don't go around broadcasting that...
much.

I guess the basic idea of me posting this is: quitcherbitchin' about people making fun of you and knocking your ideas down. It happens to everyone, some more than others. Also, if you want respect, you have to earn it. You are not God; you do not control the cosmos; you did not create Jesus and cause a bush to catch fire because you looked at it and thought "it is so." Therefore, you can not make us like you, accept you, or leave you alone (in a good way) without doing something that makes us like you, accept you, or leave you alone. Deal with it; that's how things work.

[Salvation122]

I'm 17.

How you doin?

[Bethyaga]

HA! Sal's funny.

[JohnnyRico]

I'm 17.

How you doin?

She's doin' fine. Mostly because she's got better protection than all the contraceptives put together. Brüt-squad style.

[Anguirel]

<a bunch of really cool stuff>
Eli and others, I apologize. I know this was meant to be flame-free and I tried, I really did. But... I just couldn't pull it off.

You couldn't? I didn't see any flames... Blunt, to the point, accurate. Can't be a flame if it's the truth.

I'm 17.

How you doin?

I love how Bulldrek gets to the real essence of a post. Just pulls out the single most important element...

[Salvation122]

But certainly you wouldn't have a problem with her dating a Bulldrekker.

...

[The Eclipse]

How you doin?

Of course I had to be taking a drink at that moment.

This is a new keyboard too.

[Kwyndig]

How you doin?

Of course I had to be taking a drink at that moment.

This is a new keyboard too.

Keyboard? I'd be more concerned about monitors...

[Cain]

Thorn: You're right. I'm sorry if I've missed anyone's posts. I'm probably going to mess up again as well; so if I do, please know that it's an honest mistake and not a deliberate snubbing.

In an experiment in Tolerance, I would like you to go to DSF, and pi-bomb them. Then go to Chromiates Warhammer Forum, and pi-bomb them. Go to any forum, and pi-bomb them. I wish to see how our intolerance compares to others.

Mmm-hmm. And how many of them claim to offer more than lip service to free speech?

And in addition, the insulting signatures are not causing computers to crash, or interfering with my enjoyment of the board. The sacred number is.

Sorry, but Bulldrek was crashing before I started my fillibuster. There's even a thread in the Embassy about it. I usually can't log on for about three hours a day, simply because the server isn't availiable.

Because YOU have allowed yourself to be drawn intot hat, and continue it. Other people realize when they are using failing tacks and change.

Or continue to become even more agressive and violent and obscene.

So if the community as a whole wants it, whom are you to object? This isn't a play ground. This isn't Plato's the republic. This isn't DSF. We don't ban people. We don't even edit the content of your post. EVER.

Even when you break out board WE respect YOU.

Has your PI beeen removed by any of us? No, right?

There's at least one missing pic in the album that I'm sure I put up. And that wasn't even offensive in any way, wasn't breaking the boards, and was considered to be witty and funny by most-- including you.

Thats one option. There are others you know that right? Also do you think you are the only cat here to take pie in the face?

That's the point of the fillibuster. To show you all that you've got the equivalent of a pie-throwing contest. I'm just throwing pi right back.

By the way threats and obscenities are protected under free speech.

Well thats obviously false. If even one person feels threatened then you are.

None of which happened until you started it. Hmm I see a pattern.

So do I. Someone here gets pissy at me, I get pissy back, and then we have an escalation. You want to stop the escalation? I've already offered to stop. Why do you want to escalate matters?

Neither, by my recommendation. My intent, if you're interested, was to state that I do not accept the terms of your revised proposal. All of the "protests" need to be removed for me to accept, so that everyone can browse every thread, and we can remove the unnecessary modifications to the board which have such negative effects as adversely effecting display of every thread and altering the basic usage of keystrokes in browsers. I don't think it's too much to ask that you remove your vandalism; do you?

Of course, you're under no obligation to do so; I am simply saying that these are my terms.

I wouldn't call it "vandalism"-- I'd call it a fillibuster. However, you're the one who put fixing the threads as #5 on a list. I offered to skip ahead a few steps as a good faith measure. Are you willing to make a similar good-faith measure?

You can, however, see about sending me the fifty dollars you so obviously owe me. You wagered, you lost, you denied losing but could not defend your position in any way, you promised payment if I posted my name and address, I did so, and then you claimed that you had, in fact, intentionally decieved me, and intended to send only fake money.

I didn't lose because we never finished that one. However, I did offer you a fifty-dollar bill for posting your address. You then decieved yourself into thinking I meant US dollars. But we can discuss that later.

It also means that you are free to post however many digits of pi you wish, unless and until a majority vote decides otherwise.

Then it's not really free speech, is it? It's only as free as long as it agrees with what you want it to say.

Generally speaking, the shouting of obscenities and booing comes long before the throwing of vegetables. Now, let's assume that nobody in the crowd is armed in any form other than their voices. The speaker can:
a) Stop making speeches about topics they know are unpopular and will be met with ridicule
b) Continue with the speeches, adding here and there a playful jab right back at the people making fun of them, or
c) bomb the fucking place.

Or d) Fillibuster. It's a time-honored protest used in the US Congress.

I'm called "a woman of loose morals, specifically regarding sexual relationships" on almost a daily basis (in so many words.) because of the way I post.

I'm sorry, how is that insulting? I just don't see how any consensual adult sexual activities can be an insult.

I guess the basic idea of me posting this is: quitcherbitchin' about people making fun of you and knocking your ideas down. It happens to everyone, some more than others. Also, if you want respect, you have to earn it. You are not God; you do not control the cosmos; you did not create Jesus and cause a bush to catch fire because you looked at it and thought "it is so." Therefore, you can not make us like you, accept you, or leave you alone (in a good way) without doing something that makes us like you, accept you, or leave you alone. Deal with it; that's how things work.

See, here's the thing. When I complain, I get told to deal. When 32 and the rest of the grand Rapids Coffee klatch complain, I get yelled at and told to shut up and respect the 32. See the problem?

[crone]

See, here's the thing. When I complain, I get told to deal. When 32 and the rest of the grand Rapids Coffee klatch complain, I get yelled at and told to shut up and respect the 32. See the problem?

It's more than just them complaining, though. There's a lot of people complaining off their own bat, because the pi-bombs broke their threads. It's not exactly a conspiracy, more like a whole lot of people agreeing that they don't like broken threads.

[Crazy Elf]

There's a small something that everyone's forgetting here.

I don't say this about people often, but Kai is the fucking shit! That scrollfix she tracked down and popped into this puppy is awesome, and has actually forced Cain to articulate his arguments rather than pi-ing until he got his way. Had that been installed to begin with, everyone could have happily ignored Cain when he started it the first time.

You fucking rule.

[3278]

If you are unwilling to negotiate reasonably, I am finished here. You can always reach me by PM, Cain, if you would like to try negotiating with me again. I do expect my money as soon as possible. Good day.

[Eliahad]

I am not from Grand Rapids. I do not drink coffee. I disagree with 32 when he is wrong. I will not stand up for something that I believe is wrong. I will not agree to terms that I think are wrong. I wish you would stop lumping people into a '32 militia' because one really does not exist. I'm not denying that people won't go and defend others. It's true, they do. Attack me personally and see what happens. No really. Please. I insist.

Hell, I was butt-plugged a long time ago. Stomped on, whipped beaten, called a whore, and about half a dozen other things. I took it as normal and /got over it/ I went through all of that crap and I didn't once think about leaving. I fought back with words.

Shit, I'm one of the few practicing Catholic on this board. Probably the smallest minority here and I will go fight religion every time. Doesn't matter if the others don't agree with me, I'm going to stand up for what I believe in. Me. No one else. To lump any of us together is foolsih, stupid, and going to cause a lot more grief than it cures.

[Eliahad]

Which actually reminds me. There are two threads in the last week where I made a suggestion that was summarily brought down by a majority of the board. Yet, I don't believe I responded with hostility to either. I simply tried again.

[MooCow]

Have I mentioned you're a whore Eliahad?

[JohnnyRico]

He may be a whore, Moo, but he's a whore with a very good point.

[MooCow]

He may be a whore, Moo, but he's a whore with a very good point.

[JohnnyRico]

He may be a whore, Moo, but he's a whore with a very good point.

Not like that you sick freak.

[Instant Cash]

I have to agree with Eli on that, I for one do not not blindly stand behind 32. He can be wrong, even if he doesn't think he is, I just do not try to change his point of view. OR yours either if my memory serves me right.

Course if he bends over....rowr.

[3278]

Yeah, I don't get the Cult of 3278 thing. If ever there was a time when people would blindly accept what I was saying, that time has long since passed. I think that assuming people who agree with me do so blindly not only insults me [by assuming that they couldn't possibly agree if they really thought about it] but more significantly insults /them,/ by assuming that they're unwilling or incapable of making judgements for themselves.

Plus, no one here lives in Grand Rapids, and only, what, three people live anywhere near me? [And only one of them drinks coffee.] Yeah, my best friend and my girlfriend are on the board, and sometimes they agree with me. Sometimes, they don't. None of us mind that. Come to think of it, AK probably lives as close to me as Teja, and I don't think he'd be considered as living in Grand Rapids.

It doesn't matter, of course: we all know Cain is being unreasonable, and I suspect he is more or less completely beyond the reach of reason. This board is full of people who have attempted to reason with Cain, and not a single one of them has ever been successful doing so. I'd say that's compelling evidence that it's very unlikely to happen anytime soon, particularly about an issue this charged. I'm not saying some people shouldn't keep trying; its your time to waste. But I believe it will never work. I believe Cain will continue to drag this issue on, vandalising the board in the name of protest when in reality it's just because it's the only way he can get my attention. So, as I have been well-advised to do, I'm just going to go back to not giving it to him.

Well, until he sends me my money, anyway; after I get my fifty bucks, I'll reconsider his state of rationality, and might think about talking to him again. If he sends me my money and fixes our board, I'm sure to talk to him again. Until then? I'd rather talk with the rest of you.

[Bishop]

Actually, I do live in Grand Rapids. So HA!

But I do not and will not drink coffee. That shit's sick.

And as for sticking up for you? Since when can /I/ stick up for 32 in a debate? My style of debate differs vastly from 32's. For my style of debate, see some of Sin's posts resulting from that thread about fighting. That's /my/ style of debate.

Course, I can't (and won't) do that here. I respect most of you way too much. Many of you would (in a mental debate) pound me right into the fucking ground....and I've been told by many of the people that educated me that I'm intelligent. I'm just not as well educated as much of you are.

But Cain, I don't blindly stick up for /anybody/. Never have, never will. I think some of the things that 32 has said in his debates are downright fucking silly. But they're still /rational/.

I'm done rambling now. I'm gonna go mow my lawn

[Gunny]

There's at least one missing pic in the album that I'm sure I put up. And that wasn't even offensive in any way, wasn't breaking the boards, and was considered to be witty and funny by most-- including you.

Was the picture of you? No, it wasn't. Did you see what the title of the section is? WHO /WE/ ARE. Did you also happen to notice that other pictures that do NOT depict BDers were removed? Hmm. No. Too busy feeling crucified, I guess.

FUCK! Broke my sabbatical again!!! *kicks Cain in the knee and stomps off*

[Lord Death Hand]

Howdy all I think I might throw in my opinion now.

First I'd like to start with Cain. Cain I know what it feels like to be insulted on this board. It's been happening to me for years, but you know what? I deal with it. I don't go around fucking around with things. I tried that once on ez-boards when I registered the username AquaBlade 42 to piss of FB. Everyone knew it was me pretty much. I'm certain he did. I pissed off a lot of people doing that and it sure as hell didn't get my point across and a lot of people probably lost what little respect they had for me at the time. I've been working towards fixing that for a long time now. Fillabustering doesn't work here, it just pisses people off. And you continuation of this fillabuster is now effecting not just the "guilty" but the innocent as well. I guess that's first my point for you, the second would be to fix what you've broken. Mainly this board. (Please see Mars Redux thread in Bulldrek for my post on the second part)

Second I'd like to talk to the rest of you. Stop with the Cain bashing. Sure he fucked with the board and that isn't right but he did it to defend himself I think. His continuation of this is childish true, but leave the dumb ass alone. If anything it'll only cause him to find more drastic measures. And as for the whole bombing thing I don't think we have any room to talk. Does anybody remember the Homer Bombings? A few people went out of their way in the name if Bulldrek to destroy another message board and they did a damn fine job if I remember. It was done in order to defend ourselves from the posters who had come from that board over to our little community. Those who did the bombings were appluaded by their fellow BDers, but what they did was just as bad as what Cain has done. Bah...I've lost my train of thought. I guess my second point was just to leave Cain alone. You can do this by ignoring him or whatever, but leave the guy alone. It'll probably help matters a bit.

I'm done now. You all have a nice day.

[Cain]

If you are unwilling to negotiate reasonably, I am finished here. You can always reach me by PM, Cain, if you would like to try negotiating with me again. I do expect my money as soon as possible. Good day.

I have been negotiating reasonably. I don't get what you want, other than money. I've made a good faith offer, and had it rejected. You have recieved one good-faith offer as a point of negoitiation. Where else can we compromise on? And don't talk about the money, we all know you're willing to sell what's left of your soul for money. Where else are you willing to compromise?

I wish you would stop lumping people into a '32 militia' because one really does not exist.

Really? Am I the only one who's noticed how Bulldrek has turned more and more into a continuation of conversations held in real life or on IRC? Or was it you who complained about that as well?

First I'd like to start with Cain. Cain I know what it feels like to be insulted on this board. It's been happening to me for years, but you know what? I deal with it.

Again-- if Cain gets bashed, or the target du jour, he's told to deal. If 32 gets bashed, the basher is told to take a hike. Just look at some of the threads for this.

Yeah, I don't get the Cult of 3278 thing. If ever there was a time when people would blindly accept what I was saying, that time has long since passed.

I don't think so, and I'll tell you why. Quite frequently, Bulldrek debates get talked about on IRC or in real life, allowing people to are already inclined to agree with one another through personal relationships to build a consensus and create a bloc. So, instead of three viewpoints, we get one parroted by three people.

[Daki]

And in addition, the insulting signatures are not causing computers to crash, or interfering with my enjoyment of the board. The sacred number is.

Sorry, but Bulldrek was crashing before I started my fillibuster. There's even a thread in the Embassy about it. I usually can't log on for about three hours a day, simply because the server isn't availiable.

But you also cannot deny that your Pi usage was throwing off the layout of the board, stopped others from seeing particular threads, and being a general problem for the ease of viewing and using the forums.

So if the community as a whole wants it, whom are you to object? This isn't a play ground. This isn't Plato's the republic. This isn't DSF. We don't ban people. We don't even edit the content of your post. EVER.

Even when you break out board WE respect YOU.

Has your PI beeen removed by any of us? No, right?

There's at least one missing pic in the album that I'm sure I put up. And that wasn't even offensive in any way, wasn't breaking the boards, and was considered to be witty and funny by most-- including you.

And Elf had two images he put up there removed. Maybe you missed that point about the Who We Are section being for actual pictures of the people here.

By the way threats and obscenities are protected under free speech.

Well thats obviously false. If even one person feels threatened then you are.

This bothers me the most because you are quoting two seperate points out of context that have, really no relation to one another. The first quote states that threats and obsceneties are part of free speech. That means I can call you a wanker if I want to. The second quote deals specifically with you stating you were not a threat to the board and that quote was a direct contradiction to your statement. No relation there... unless you are trying to prove the point that, yes, you can make these things and they will not be censored, edited, etc. And what you have said here has not been deleted, edited, censored, in any way. The community as a whole voted overwhelmingly NOT to delete or edit any posts with Pi.

Yes, even people who do not like you voted against it.

None of which happened until you started it. Hmm I see a pattern.

So do I. Someone here gets pissy at me, I get pissy back, and then we have an escalation. You want to stop the escalation? I've already offered to stop. Why do you want to escalate matters?

That is not correct. You stated that you would stop if your demand was met. And it just so happens that demand would be a direct contradiction to "free speech". Playing nice and not allowing certain things to be said does that. I do not see how you can argue that point.

You can, however, see about sending me the fifty dollars you so obviously owe me. You wagered, you lost, you denied losing but could not defend your position in any way, you promised payment if I posted my name and address, I did so, and then you claimed that you had, in fact, intentionally decieved me, and intended to send only fake money.

I didn't lose because we never finished that one. However, I did offer you a fifty-dollar bill for posting your address. You then decieved yourself into thinking I meant US dollars. But we can discuss that later.

Oh Cain, that just has me rolling with amusement because, just the other day, my brother pulled a similar prank on me. I gave him several compliments on his creativity and humor. My brother is 9 years old.

Yes, my humor at that is sarcasm. It was funny for a young child to think of something like that.

[MooCow]

Really? Am I the only one who's noticed how Bulldrek has turned more and more into a continuation of conversations held in real life or on IRC? Or was it you who complained about that as well?

Yeeeesssss.... But since only a small number live in Michigan, what does that have to do with the Cult of 32?

Oh... and have I mentioned you're a Whore Cain?

[Daki]

It also means that you are free to post however many digits of pi you wish, unless and until a majority vote decides otherwise.

Then it's not really free speech, is it? It's only as free as long as it agrees with what you want it to say.

And what you are asking us to do is agree to curtail what we might choose to say to fit what you want. Isn't that the purpose behind your compromise? Won't that curtail free speech here as well?

[Instant Cash]

Really? Am I the only one who's noticed how Bulldrek has turned more and more into a continuation of conversations held in real life or on IRC? Or was it you who complained about that as well?

I like the IRC thing, it makes it easier to stay in touch with people. You can always join us if you want.

Personally IRC sucks for debating, things move too quick and conversations change quicker than a manic depressives mood swings.

Maybe I am just slow.

[MooCow]

Personally IRC sucks for debating

Personally, I think both IRC and the Board sucks for debating. But that's just me.

[Instant Cash]

Personally, I think both IRC and the Board sucks for debating. But that's just me.

Course since when did you like debating?

[Kai]

Dude, a compliment from the Elf. Kickass As much as the content is all free and happy here, the code never is, becase somethings we don't have control over, and some things everyone shouldn't have access to. My job's only to make the board work, if its broke, I try to fix it.

[Anguirel]

Personally IRC sucks for debating

Personally, I think both IRC and the Board sucks for debating. But that's just me.

That's because you're a slut. You don't even bother to charge.

It should be noted that 32 visits IRC all of maybe once or twice every six months, if that,and then only when something on the board is talking about him specifically, usually, and only for short time, maybe an hour at most, really. As for "forming a bloc" that's what happens sometimes when people debate issues they don't already have their minds made up about. They all come to a consensus agreement on something, and they've all heard the good reasons to think that way, so they'll all repeat them. It's like saying everyone who has read Cogito Ergo Sum is forming a bloc. There's some really good reasons to agree with that statement, and anyone who knows it and the reasoning behind it is likely to use the original argument at some point to uphold the concept to a doubter.

It should be noted that filibusters involve preventing anyone else from speaking until one gets their own way, along with preventing a vote from occuring. That's an impossibility in this forum. We've had the vote (p.s. Free Speech won, which both means your "protest" posts remain, and everyone else is allowed to be as mean as they want and you can't stop them), other people are clearly speaking (though some have chosen to leave for some period of time, so I suppose it's working in some small part), and what you're doing is clearly anything but a filibuster. There's no sense in which this is a noble action, Cain, nor a honorable one, and you demean the concept of filibusters and protests by calling what you do such. Serious Paul, though abrasive in his fashion, is correct in calling it an attack, and your "offer" a threat.

"Do what I say, or else I keep posting absurdly long strings of numbers." Or whatever it is you find next that will cause errors and inconvenience users now that those posts have been mostly contained (albeit, continuing to cause severe problems on specific browsers). Here's a good-faith offering for you, Cain... We'll all keep allowing Free Speech. 3278 has offered more, in fact, beyond that. He's offered to listen and respond to your speech in particular, if you meet his conditions. I personally think some of his conditions are fairly reasonable, such as editting your posts to allow normal usage of the board again by, say, people on dial-up or those poor, pathetic computers made by Apple that can't handle the stress of loading what you've posted previously. Your choice to abide by the remainder, i.e. sending him a fifty dollar bill, is something you can work out on your own with 3278.

In the course of this thread alone, you've proven yourself to be both illogical and unreasonable. Until such time as you have demonstrated that you can once more be logical and reasonable, I agree with 3278 -- there's no further use in discussing anything with you. This is my one attempt at resolution. I will not make another. Any reasonable replies to this will, however, be responded to, should they appear.

[John Basedow]

Sorry, but Bulldrek was crashing before I started my fillibuster
..
I wouldn't call it "vandalism"-- I'd call it a fillibuster.
...
Or d) Fillibuster. It's a time-honored protest used in the US Congress.

Cain, there is so much that is completely retarded that I am just going to ignore. I am going to pick on this one point. It's called "filibuster" and if I remember correctly there can be a 60 person vote (by the Senate) to end the filibuster.

If you want to call it a filibuster then you should respect the boards wishes if we can get sixty votes for you to shut the fuck up.

[Kai]

Wow. Okay, yeah, so I slept through a lot of history and gov't classes, they were godawful boring, but that's kinda cool actually...

[Cash]

Cain, there is so much that is completely retarded that I am just going to ignore. I am going to pick on this one point. It's called "filibuster" and if I remember correctly there can be a 60 person vote (by the Senate) to end the filibuster.

If you want to call it a filibuster then you should respect the boards wishes if we can get sixty votes for you to shut the fuck up.

Vote +1

Total number of votes so far? 1.